For those who claim Pacquiao is on steroids

[rao007]

Did you read my post? Did I say I was seriously sure Pac was guilty, or did I say clearly and plain-as-day that this CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence is not enough to convict Pac?

Here's the thing, based on personal opinion using circumstantial evidence from what you've gleaned over as relevant information, based on your gut feeling--that Manny Pacquiao IS taking steroids. You're not simply stating that he COULD--you're stating that he IS. You know why I conclude this--you're arguing it like there's actual merit!! YOU'RE MAKING A CASE!! DUMMY! Is there enough evidence? No. That's where you come in smart ass.


COULD Manny be a steroid junky? Yes. Have you proved that? No. That's the point.

[dans]

I think anyone who can say definitively one way or another, yes or no, should reconsider.

We really never know who's on them and who's not.

It's a silly thing to debate really unless it's like Mark McGwire where his nuts are the size of cashews.

[Doctor_Tenma]

You're around, you hear it. We'll leave it at that. But anyway, I'm not saying everything you hear is true. But with steroids...man, everyone's a suspect. And when you see so many clues circling one situation, it's not hard to draw your own conclusion.

You people acting like Floyd Sr. is so crazy oughta know that he's only bringing to public what a lot of people are whispering in private, right or wrong. And what was Pac/Roach's reaction? "I don't even know what they are" and "I don't think so." Sure helps.

I remember some years back someone telling me Jameel McCline was a heavy user. Would people be more willing to believe that because it's a fighter they don't care about? I'm afraid the answer is yes.

Yeah man, Ortiz, Manny...I didn't expect that from them either. Reason why I don't fuck with Baseball anymore, also because The Mets been sucking. Gotta expect the unexpected. They're all so defensive due to Pacquiao's personality.

[Al Haymon]

No one can stop anyone from expressing his/her opinion no matter how ignorant, tasteless or biased it is, that is the sad truth. The only possible thing is to ask that person to be a bit more open minded when it comes to reasoning and the effects that opinion may bring.


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If you notice, I didn't just say "Yeah, Pac is doing steroids. I don't know why, but I just feel that way."

That is not what i did.

I clearly said the evidence was circumstantial. I clearly said that this 'evidence' should not be enough to indict or convict MP. It is the opinion of one man. And I listed the reasons why I have that opinion. As a guy who has trained in gyms, and has participated in a combat sport, I know the culture.

The LEAST IMPORTANT factor that I consider is the "nice guy defense". And the principal defense I keep hearing for Manny is that he is a nice, good, humble guy. That has proven to be completely unreliable. Here are some "nice guys" who roided out: Shane Mosley, David Ortiz, Andy Petitte.

Andy Pettitte is super-religious. By all accounts, a devoted family man. Evander holyfield walks into the ring to gospel music and talks about Jesus constantly. Shane is a naturally gifted athlete who, like Manny, presumably wouldn't need roids to compete at a high level. Again, by all accounts, Shane is a "nice guy. A "good guy". A credit to the sport, right? Well.... he did steroids.

The realities of modern sports - heck, of modern life - is that people get painted by a certain brush based on factors not in their control...or because of their environment.

You may be the world's best 21 year old driver. Never had a ticket or accident. But you know what? The insurance compoany is still going to charge you a high rate for car insurance. That is just how life works.

In this age of sports, where nearly every top athlete in sports has been busted for PED's after we celebrated their too-good-to-be-true performances, it makes us think twice. You don't think there are whispers about Usain Bolt?

How many of the past few baseball MVP's were found to be roiding?
NFL defensive stars like Shawne Merriman? Half the Raiders and 49ers.
Most of the track records of the past few years have been wiped out or tainted by drugs.
Evander Holyfield, Shane Mosley and Roy Jones put on lean muscle...and all were geared up.

Again, this is not an accusation or an allegation. It is my opinion. If you asked me to bet my mortgage, I would say 'Yes, Manny Pacquiao has used PED's".

If you say that opinion is biased or blind, then you are not very smart. Because I have given you all of the factors I considered in shaping that opinion.

[Al Haymon]

I think anyone who can say definitively one way or another, yes or no, should reconsider.

We really never know who's on them and who's not.

It's a silly thing to debate really unless it's like Mark McGwire where his nuts are the size of cashews.

How do you know the size of Mark McGwire's testes?

[rao007]

Yeah man, Ortiz, Manny...I didn't expect that from them either. Reason why I don't fuck with Baseball anymore, also because The Mets been sucking. Gotta expect the unexpected. They're all so defensive due to Pacquiao's personality.

Well, isn't everybody innocent until proven guilty? I'll be the first one to admit fault if Pacquiao does indeed take steroids. But there has to be proof. Not absurd rationalizing from guys like Al Haymon. Here's one of his rationale: if a black person lives in a predominately violent neighborhood they must also be violent.

My question: could they be violent? Yes. But are they?

[dans]

How do you know the size of Mark McGwire's testes?

Silly Haymon, you told me, remember? Remember you were all caught up in the home run race and said "Anyone who hits that many home runs must be equipped". I remember you saying after you checked them out that Sosa was a dissappointment but McGwire was embarrassing.

[rao007]

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If you notice, I didn't just say "Yeah, Pac is doing steroids. I don't know why, but I just feel that way."

That is not what i did.

I clearly said the evidence was circumstantial. I clearly said that this 'evidence' should not be enough to indict or convict MP. It is the opinion of one man. And I listed the reasons why I have that opinion. As a guy who has trained in gyms, and has participated in a combat sport, I know the culture.

The LEAST IMPORTANT factor that I consider is the "nice guy defense". And the principal defense I keep hearing for Manny is that he is a nice, good, humble guy. That has proven to be completely unreliable. Here are some "nice guys" who roided out: Shane Mosley, David Ortiz, Andy Petitte.

Andy Pettitte is super-religious. By all accounts, a devoted family man. Evander holyfield walks into the ring to gospel music and talks about Jesus constantly. Shane is a naturally gifted athlete who, like Manny, presumably wouldn't need roids to compete at a high level. Again, by all accounts, Shane is a "nice guy. A "good guy". A credit to the sport, right? Well.... he did steroids.

The realities of modern sports - heck, of modern life - is that people get painted by a certain brush based on factors not in their control...or because of their environment.

You may be the world's best 21 year old driver. Never had a ticket or accident. But you know what? The insurance compoany is still going to charge you a high rate for car insurance. That is just how life works.

In this age of sports, where nearly every top athlete in sports has been busted for PED's after we celebrated their too-good-to-be-true performances, it makes us think twice. You don't think there are whispers about Usain Bolt?

How many of the past few baseball MVP's were found to be roiding?
NFL defensive stars like Shawne Merriman? Half the Raiders and 49ers.
Most of the track records of the past few years have been wiped out or tainted by drugs.
Evander Holyfield, Shane Mosley and Roy Jones put on lean muscle...and all were geared up.

Again, this is not an accusation or an allegation. It is my opinion. If you asked me to bet my mortgage, I would say 'Yes, Manny Pacquiao has used PED's".

If you say that opinion is biased or blind, then you are not very smart. Because I have given you all of the factors I considered in shaping that opinion.

Are you trying to use semantics to seperate the word "opinion" ---lol. There's practically no difference with alleging Pacquiao is on steroids or accusing that's his on steroids. Laywers use circumstantial evidence all the time to try and convict people. YOU'RE trying to do the same.

[IMDAZED]

Well, isn't everybody innocent until proven guilty? I'll be the first one to admit that I was wrong if Pacquiao does indeed take steroids. But there has to be proof. Not absurd rationalizing from guys like Al Haymon. Here's one of his rationale: if a black person lives in a predominately violent neighborhood they must also be violent.

My question: could they be violent? Yes. But are they?

It's his own personal belief, rao. What's the problem? He never said he had definite proof. He just laid out some of his reasons and offered food for thought.

[IMDAZED]

Yeah man, Ortiz, Manny...I didn't expect that from them either. Reason why I don't fuck with Baseball anymore, also because The Mets been sucking. Gotta expect the unexpected. They're all so defensive due to Pacquiao's personality.

Remember when Canseco first made accusations? Everything centered around him, how unreliable he was, how jealous he was, how he was a cokehead...sound familiar? Who would've thought that he'd blow the lid off this scandal? And that nearly ALL the top players were users?

I keep saying it...the only reason why this hasn't occured in other sports is because no one wants to be that rat. But should it happen in boxing...God, it's going to be ugly.