Top 10 all-time heavyweights!

[Mugwump]

That is a part of the Psychology of Boxing. Same happened to opponents that fought Liston and Foreman. Even Ali used psychological warfare to gain an edge.

By the way, how did Tyson get that "aura"?

I hesitate to use the word "earned" because I don't think it's the entire truth. I give D'Amato most of the credit. He knew the boxing business front to back - training right through to promotion. In Tyson he saw precisely the tool he could use to unlock the gates to the big time once again. The HW division was not in the greatest of health. There hadn't been a genuinely aggressive (and good) hitter seen for some time. The opportunity was there - for the right kind of guy. The problem was Tyson WASN'T the right kind of guy. Sure, he had tremendous boxing ability - but he was suffering from severe psychological problems which would threaten to unravel any carefully laid plans from the very beginning. So old Cus decided to bluff it out. After all, perception is reality - or so the marketing people say. The very "defects" (his surly demeanour, mood swings etc) that Cus and his team were worried about were sold as the ravings of some kind of beastial man. "Kid Dynamite" was simply too tame a nickname and so the myth (call it an aura) of Iron Mike - The Baddest Man on the Planet was born. Cus knew the HW division was in such a weak state that he could get Tyson all the way to the top without facing guys who might ask one or two difficult questions. And as the wins kept coming the aura continued to grow. To the point where fighters were beaten before they'd even stepped in the same arena.

It was a masterstroke. Old Cus' plan worked to perfection. The fact that Tyson disintegrated after the Douglas bout probably wouldn't have bothered him (had he been around). Indeed, he might have been surprised at just how long Mike lasted at the top - given the problems he had between his ears. Cus used Tyson from the very beginning and got all the adulation he'd craved for - and more besides. What that says about him as a human being is something else.

[catalinul]

Way to hard for me to make a list.Haven't seen as much footage and haven't compared alkmost at all as much as I've wished.

Ali
Louis
Johnson

I''ll just stop there.

[The_Demon]

1. muhammad ali
2. joe louis
3. george foreman
4. larry holmes
5. jack dempsey
6. lennox lewis
7. rocky marciano
8. floyd patterson
9. gene tunney
10. sonny liston

very good list

[Juof]

tyson would of koed fraizer with ease i also think he would of beat foreman and ali you can say hes overated n **** but look how the people dropped when he koed them look at his speed look at how he bobs and weaves
mike tyson best fighter that ever lived

[The_Demon]

tyson would of koed fraizer with ease i also think he would of beat foreman and ali you can say hes overated n **** but look how the people dropped when he koed them look at his speed look at how he bobs and weaves
mike tyson best fighter that ever lived

wrong on every level

[Benny Leonard]

I hesitate to use the word "earned" because I don't think it's the entire truth. I give D'Amato most of the credit. He knew the boxing business front to back - training right through to promotion. In Tyson he saw precisely the tool he could use to unlock the gates to the big time once again. The HW division was not in the greatest of health. There hadn't been a genuinely aggressive (and good) hitter seen for some time. The opportunity was there - for the right kind of guy. The problem was Tyson WASN'T the right kind of guy. Sure, he had tremendous boxing ability - but he was suffering from severe psychological problems which would threaten to unravel any carefully laid plans from the very beginning. So old Cus decided to bluff it out. After all, perception is reality - or so the marketing people say. The very "defects" (his surly demeanour, mood swings etc) that Cus and his team were worried about were sold as the ravings of some kind of beastial man. "Kid Dynamite" was simply too tame a nickname and so the myth (call it an aura) of Iron Mike - The Baddest Man on the Planet was born. Cus knew the HW division was in such a weak state that he could get Tyson all the way to the top without facing guys who might ask one or two difficult questions. And as the wins kept coming the aura continued to grow. To the point where fighters were beaten before they'd even stepped in the same arena.

It was a masterstroke. Old Cus' plan worked to perfection. The fact that Tyson disintegrated after the Douglas bout probably wouldn't have bothered him (had he been around). Indeed, he might have been surprised at just how long Mike lasted at the top - given the problems he had between his ears. Cus used Tyson from the very beginning and got all the adulation he'd craved for - and more besides. What that says about him as a human being is something else.

None of it would have worked if Tyson wasn't good. The Speed, agility, boxing ability, Power, agrression...were all there to help. He was a 5'11, 215 pound HW.

You can build a guy up all you want but it has to show or nobody will believe it.

Disagree: If D'Amato was around and saw what Tyson was doing he would have bitched him out...but like Tyson said...none of that would have happened if Cus was around...he was to afraid of Cus and did what he was told.
It was discipline that helped Tyson get to the top and it was not being disciplined that led to his fall.

Tyson started to fall apart before the Douglas bout. Even with Rooney, towards the end, in the build-up to Spinks, he was having trouble outside the ring with everything that was choas in his life and basically feeling he was alone. He was still quite young when he fought Spinks and he was the most well known athlete in the World...and married.
This was talked about before. It's also why he talked about retiring after Spinks. Have many videos I can put up if you want.

What Cus and Jacbos provided for Tyson was security. They provided Tyson with answers on how to deal with things...on how to be a Champion...a road map if you will to get to the top and stay at the top. Without them, without his guide(s)...he fell apart.

Lennox used his Mother to help guide him...as well as Emanuel to make him a better boxer and instruct him.

Ali used his family and belief in God/NOI and also had Dundee to match him up.

Foreman needed a decade off before being mentally strong again after finding "God" after falling apart after Ali.

People use/rely on tools to help them succeed...Tyson was no different.


"I don't try to intimidate anybody before a fight," Tyson said. "That's nonsense. I intimidate people by hitting them." ~Tyson

[Stickman]

TYSON doesn't belong on any top 10 all time great list. He'd be lucky to make it into the top 50, in my opinion. Who'd he beat, exactly, to deserve top 10?

[MoneyMay1]

1. muhammad ali
2. joe louis
3. george foreman
4. larry holmes
5. jack dempsey
6. lennox lewis
7. rocky marciano
8. floyd patterson
9. gene tunney
10. sonny liston

Good post. Prime to Prime though I would have to put Holyfield higher than Lewis. Even though Holyfield lost to Lewis, he is boxing's true warrior and Lewis has been KO'd by single punches. Holy's inside and outside movement puts him ahead in my book. Everything else seems accurate except I would have to place Tyson (IN HIS SHORT PRIME) ahead of Tunney. Even though Lewis has proved himself in the eyes of many to be the generation's best HW, in my book Holyfield was the most complete fighter.

[MoneyMay1]

TYSON doesn't belong on any top 10 all time great list. He'd be lucky to make it into the top 50, in my opinion. Who'd he beat, exactly, to deserve top 10?

The Tyson that fought Spinks, was the greatest Tyson we ever saw. His prime was short, but back in that day he would be VERY dangerous to even the greatest Heavyweights. His ability to work inside the long jab of bigger opponents and his rock solid chin cannot be overlooked. I'm his biggest critic, but he had the total package.

[Mugwump]

None of it would have worked if Tyson wasn't good. The Speed, agility, boxing ability, Power, agrression...were all there to help. He was a 5'11, 215 pound HW.

You can build a guy up all you want but it has to show or nobody will believe it

Oh, I agree entirely. Technically, Tyson had everything. As is the case with almost all big hitters his power was generated from the heels up. He had the full array of shots - hooks, crosses, uppercuts - even a half-decent jab when he bothered to use it. He was fit and he was fast. Way too fast for almost everyone in the division. And he had superb head movement. It's something that we seem to be seeing less of lately. Can't understand why.

And D'Amato couldn't have sold the package any better. But it only had a very limited lifespan. Living with Tyson and controlling the purse strings he could make sure he stuck to the gameplan. But it must have been increasingly difficult to keep the house of cards from collapsing as his profile and achievements grew.

Even with Cus around - it was never going to end happily. Sooner or later he'd face someone who a) wasn't affected by Tyson's "baddest man on the planet" aura b) had some degree of ability and c) would not be bullied in the ring.

And 'C' is the important condition. Because with Tyson everything revolved around bullying. Bullying his opponent. Bullying by Cus. Bullying women (sexually). Bullying by the kids he grew up with. He was terrified of being bullied. He still is. The psychological hang ups (which Cus and his team used cynically for their own ends) were immense. So much so that when I see him being pummelled by Holyfield (who NO ONE was going to bully) - standing there in the middle of the ring with an almost childish expression of dumb bewilderment across his face I genuinely feel sorry for the guy.