Pick Em 2023 - PRE SEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

[Citizen Koba]

Well, let's use the over/under then

Well yeah, could do I guess, I quite like the idea - but that'd involve introducing a whole new game mechanic whereas this would do something quite similar but could be seamlessly introduced using the system and pick categories we already got with minimal extra effort and almost no added complexity.

I mean don't get me wrong, I ain't got some deep commitment to this - it was just more of a random thought - but it feels like it could be interesting and relatively easily introduced.

[ShoulderRoll]

The scoring balance is a tricky one and we got some strong opinions on both sides... I'm a bit wary of weighting it too heavy on method and detail - and even if we do move in that direction I'd be inclined to do it incrementally to see how it effects play balance rather than going the whole hog in one go. My inclination - if we do it at all - would be to start at 10/10/10 (W/M/D) for 2023 and then to see how it effects the game before taking it any further.

Wouldn't it be better to see the play balance tilt towards those who can make the most perfect picks, instead of to those who use multipliers?

Seems to me if you want to reward actual boxing knowledge that would be the way to go. While still keeping an element of gamesmanship.

[Citizen Koba]

Wouldn't it be better to see the play balance tilt towards those who can make the most perfect picks, instead of to those who use multipliers?

Seems to me if you want to reward actual boxing knowledge that would be the way to go. While still keeping an element of gamesmanship.

Well we're certainly moving in that direction by reducing the number of multpliers and making it so they can't be played on heavy favourites.. definitely the consesus is to reduce - although not eliminate entirely - the degree of gamesmanship.

The changing of the points balance I'm open to but am reluctant to take too far all at once and it does feel to me like the current balance (bearing in mind the original Pick Em was 20/5/5) represents a kinda threshold... right now picking the right fighter is just as valuable a s picking how exactly they win. If we go to 10/10/10 or even further to something like 10/10/20 it changes the balance in a major way and I'm not sure it's necessarily in a good way.


I think my problem is partly the simple degree of randomness and - well I guess you gotta call it what it is - corruption in boxing (or subjectivity if you want to be super diplomatic ) means that over-emphasising the detail element in the game actually increases the impact of the frequent bad decisons in the sport as much or even more than it rewards the discernment of players.

The main justification I can see for the route you suggest is that it's an effective answer to the simple reality that boxing has so many mismatches - if it wasn't so obvious in so many fights who the winner would be there wouldn't be so much need to emphasise the method and detail - the simple fact of choosing the right fighter time and again in 50/50 fights would demonstrate that you knew your ****, but obviously choosing a -500 favorite time after time says nothing about your knowledge except that you know what odds mean.

However my prefered answer would be to simply include fewer mismatches - even if it meant reaching down into the regional and national level schedules to get fights that were 50/50 or at least relatively even - but then of course that brings it's own problems... players ain't so invested in fighters they don't know and certainly are less invested in fights they can't even watch. Perennial problem and I doubt we'll ever find precisely the right balance.

What I will do ceratinly is poll the idea of changing the points balance but right now I'm not gonna make the option beyond 10/10/10 - if people want that - and I am personally ambivalent (could go either way, think it's worth exploring but am wary of unecessary changes) then we try it out in 2023 and see how it effects the game before going further.

[Tatabanya]

However my prefered answer would be to simply include fewer mismatches - even if it meant reaching down into the regional and national level schedules to get fights that were 50/50 or at least relatively even - but then of course that brings it's own problems... players ain't so invested in fighters they don't know and certainly are less invested in fights they can't even watch. Perennial problem and I doubt we'll ever find precisely the right balance.

I'd certainly favor this solution over others.

Let's face it, when, say, Naoya Inoue fights someone like Aran Dipaen, most people know everything about the Monster and nothing about Dipaen, therefore they just follow the odds. Having more balanced fights would improve the game's quality AND everybody's boxing knowledge (gotta do the homework!), the only problem being our new Champ MikeyG's eventual inability to secure footage of the involved fighters (well, I actually do NOT believe that we'd run fights THAT obscure ).

There have been lots of instances last year where we could have had much more balanced fights to pick on than some over-predictable "title fight" mismatch. We should not miss fights like Briedis vs Opetaia - one of 2022's best - just because we don't know who the latter is. Of course not everybody has the time to study fighters during the week, this I understand. But those who can, or just know, should contribute in that sense (namely, suggesting a balanced fight for inclusion in our game).

In a nutshell, I'd prefer something like (still not happening!) Lucas Browne vs Mahmoud Charr to a mismatch such as Inoue vs Dipaen.

[Tatabanya]

PICK EM CREW: in keeping with my previous post above, next weekend - January 14 - there's a classic case of pair of "minor" fights which could be used for the Pick Em, given the balance in the forces at play.

I'm talking about Adam Lopez vs Abraham Nova and Efe Ajagba vs Stephan Shaw.

Whaddya say?

[PICK EM CREW]

Any chance we could re-sticky this one for a few more days please, I'm hoping to get a bit more discussion going over the next few days, maybe put up a coupla polls over the weekend and then depending on what the feedback is pull together the 2023 Masterthread Monday or Tuesday next week in time for the fight(s) we include on nthe 21st.



jaded -MEGA- BostonGuy BIGPOPPAPUMP

Many thanks

K

[PICK EM CREW]

PICK EM CREW: in keeping with my previous post above, next weekend - January 14 - there's a classic case of pair of "minor" fights which could be used for the Pick Em, given the balance in the forces at play.

I'm talking about Adam Lopez vs Abraham Nova and Efe Ajagba vs Stephan Shaw.

Whaddya say?

Sorry man, I been kinda busy and missed your post.... I had kinda made the decison to skip on the Ajagba vs Shaw fight just simply based on their rankings and the lack of any titles on the line and I guess the same applies to Lopez vs Nova. But as I intimated elsewhere I was having some second thoughts about Ajagba vs Shaw when I saw how close the odds were and you can apply precisely the same argument for Nova vs Lopez.

Ok this is a consequence of my not having pulled together the discussion thread sooner and got a proper feel for the balance we're gonna lean towards this year vis fight selection - ie - do we go for name recogniton or even fights. I'm not gonna include em this time I think partly because I left it kinda late now, but mainly cos they wouldn't have been included under the 2020 criteria....

However I would strongly encourage those who would have liked to have fights of this kinda of level in as long as they are fairly evenly bvalanced to make their feelings known on the Pre-Season discussion thread and any subsequent poll I may be putting up.

It's kinda difficult cos the initial January schedule was actually pretty strong prior to Rivas and particularly Stanionis dropping out so I had been thinking we really didn't need any extra fights but the way things have fallen it might have been an idea to include one or both of these... Most likely the Ajagba fight since at least it cracks the 4 star Boxrec rating. My main issue with it is that neither Ajagaba or Shaw have ever beaten anyone of any significance.

Either way, for better or for worse I've made the call on this one - No Pick Em for this week and we'll be looking at Beefy vs Eubank on the 21st plus most likely one of either Essuman vs Kongo or Riakporhe vs Glowacki depending significantly whether the sentiment on the Pre-Season discussion thread leans towards higher ranking or more even fights.

Ha - if it sounds like I'm just kinda winging it, it's cos I am - I shoulda got on it earlier TBH but I'm juggling a bunch of RL stuff at the moment too. Let's try to put this one behind us and I'll firm up the concepts for the tone of this years Pick Em over the next week and try to get a bit more consistency going forward. Be much easier once I got the Masterthread up and running in a few days.

[Tatabanya]

Sorry man, I been kinda busy and missed your post.... I had kinda made the decison to skip on the Ajagba vs Shaw fight just simply based on their rankings and the lack of any titles on the line and I guess the same applies to Lopez vs Nova. But as I intimated elsewhere I was having some second thoughts about Ajagba vs Shaw when I saw how close the odds were and you can apply precisely the same argument for Nova vs Lopez.

Ok this is a consequence of my not having pulled together the discussion thread sooner and got a proper feel for the balance we're gonna lean towards this year vis fight selection - ie - do we go for name recogniton or even fights. I'm not gonna include em this time I think partly because I left it kinda late now, but mainly cos they wouldn't have been included under the 2020 criteria....

However I would strongly encourage those who would have liked to have fights of this kinda of level in as long as they are fairly evenly bvalanced to make their feelings known on the Pre-Season discussion thread and any subsequent poll I may be putting up.

It's kinda difficult cos the initial January schedule was actually pretty strong prior to Rivas and particularly Stanionis dropping out so I had been thinking we really didn't need any extra fights but the way things have fallen it might have been an idea to include one or both of these... Most likely the Ajagba fight since at least it cracks the 4 star Boxrec rating. My main issue with it is that neither Ajagaba or Shaw have ever beaten anyone of any significance.

Either way, for better or for worse I've made the call on this one - No Pick Em for this week and we'll be looking at Beefy vs Eubank on the 21st plus most likely one of either Essuman vs Kongo or Riakporhe vs Glowacki depending significantly whether the sentiment on the Pre-Season discussion thread leans towards higher ranking or more even fights.

Ha - if it sounds like I'm just kinda winging it, it's cos I am - I shoulda got on it earlier TBH but I'm juggling a bunch of RL stuff at the moment too. Let's try to put this one behind us and I'll firm up the concepts for the tone of this years Pick Em over the next week and try to get a bit more consistency going forward. Be much easier once I got the Masterthread up and running in a few days.

It's OK man, no problem at all. I had realized that you are extremely busy, no big issue. It was just a development of the "less mismatches" argument you posted a few days back.

Speaking of sudden ideas... would it be absurd, according to you and everybody else, deciding about multipliers on a weekend-by-weekend basis, namely without a pre-determined number of multipliers for the entire season? Perhaps this would add a little surprise, so to speak, and could be more stimulating for the players rather than the "let's-see-how-many-multipliers-I'm-left-with" approach.

[I_Didn't_Hear_No_Bell]

How soon before the fight do you post each one? Same day of the fight? Day before? Week before?

[MulaKO]

How soon before the fight do you post each one? Same day of the fight? Day before? Week before?

Usually posted the week of the fight on Monday
You have the whole week to do your homework