Comments Thread For: McGuigan: Fury Could Be in For a Rude Awakening in Usyk Showdown

[-Kev-]

If Fury looked after himself a bit more though would be so much better as noted.As stated Ive got friends who look in better physique than him no doubt not helped by Furys occasional drinking benders . The body is a machine and the more you look after it better it runs.

Tyson Fury is one of the best conditioned fighters in boxing. He fights and moves like a middleweight, for 12 rounds. One of the few fighters I can see thriving in 15 round fights.

Boxing is about conditioning, not necessarily looks.

Andy Ruiz looks like a fat slob compared to most of his opponents. But look at the success he has had.

[Gideon lock]

McGuigan is right, Fury has become an arguably better fighter and a worse boxer since his return to the sport.

And he's going to need every ounce of boxing ability he can produce to beat Usyk and that's assuming he can beat him lest we forget Cunningham was outboxing and only withered after Fury was forced to use "big man" and illegal tactics...

“Believe it or not, this is gonna sound strange – Cunningham was the hardest fight I ever did have in my whole career, amateur or professional."

“The reason being he was very slippery. The way I explain Cunningham – it was like a Conger Eel all full of oil in front of me. I couldn’t pin him down."

“I come out here all confident,run straight onto an overhand right – down, I was looking up at Madison Square Garden’s roof and I thought: ‘Fúck me, it’s now back to the farm, boy, get up."

If he says this is about Cunningham and he's barely a dollar shop version of Usyk how's he going to cope with Usyk himself.

Your forgetting fury was still relatively green for that fight against cunningham. post wlad he's been a whole different fighter. Not saying usyk can't win just stating the cunningham fight was ages ago hardly a reference point for today's fury with sugarhill steward at the helm.

[PRINCEKOOL]

You’ve literally jumped around every Usyk statement thrown at you. Thank you for proving my fact even more.

just to clarify though. Cunningham landed a cleaner shot in Fury. Wilder is no shape way or form battered fury, other than landing a few fringe albeit strong shots due to his power being on a level close to shavers.

You discredited yourself saying again claiming Anthony Joshua is an elite world class fighter.

Otto wallin, if a fringe euro level fighter, then how is Joshua elite? Wallin beats Joshua.

thank you though for skirting my rebuttal of Usyk fighting anyone of note though. I never disagreed with your thought on fury taking easy fights. Usyk’s just never fought anyone on close of a level, and struggled with two gatekeeper heavyweights. One who he see debatably lost against.

hey, you tried.

The points you are making are irrelevant, and do not disapprove what I have stated which is.

Tyson Fury has not fought at elite level skill for skill since Wladimir Kiltschko. That is a 1000% fact.

Usyk has fought at elite level skill for skill at cruiser-weight and at Heavyweight. Usyk has just fought 24 rounds, two fights back to back against Anthony Joshua.

Anthony Joshua whether you like it or not, was on Merritt a elite level fighter within the Heavyweight division. Joshua was a elite level fighter skill of skill, and his ranking and also proved this 'That was the standard he reached'.

That is all I am saying. I am not skirted around whatever you have said regarded Usyk.

He had a close fight with Chisora so what, he still won the fight. And lets be real? Chisora has been in a mess since that fight, Fury did not face the same Chisora with the same level of conditioning or even determination that Usyk faced.

Muhammad Ali, struggled with Ken Norton and Joe Frazier, it is cliche but sometimes styles do make fights. What happened when Muhammad Ali fought George Foreman? This is why the points you keep going on about regarding Usyk, are quiet irrelevant.

You are not disapproving the main fundamental statement, which I have made in this thread.

Which is that Tyson Fury has not fought at elite level skill for skill technically since Wladimir Kiltschko, and Fury has barely fought at World level.

Usyk in order become the Undisputed Champion at Cruiser weight has had to fight elite level fighters. And in order to also capture the WBO, WBA, IBF & IBO World Heavyweight titles he has had to fight two fights back to back vs Anthony Joshua who was a elite level heavyweight. These are the facts.

You are not being objective, I am being objective. Anthony Joshua when he fought Usyk was a elite level fighter within the Heavyweight division.

That is why he had 4 title belts. That is why he was ranked at number 1 within those divisions. That is how rating fighters works mate.

That is why I am stating that he was a elite level fighter, because that was the standard he reached.

If a fighter wins a world title, then you must rate them as a world level fighter. You cannot just not rate them at that level because you don't like them, or cannot handle the reality of the situation. That is what you are doing, and that is why I am not doing.

It is a fact that Ottin Wallin was a domestic level to a European level fighter when Tyson Fury fought him. This has nothing to do with me liking or disliking Ottin Wallin, that is just the standard he was at. And even right now, Ottin Wallin is not a elite level fighter and is barely a World level fighter.

You clearly don't understand what you are trying to prove or disapprove in this thread. Notice how nobody is coming at me in this thread, notice how nobody is objectifying to the statements regarding Tyson Fury resume and situation in his career that I have highlighted. Nobody is challenging me in any such way, because what I have stated is correct.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Tyson Fury is one of the best conditioned fighters in boxing. He fights and moves like a middleweight, for 12 rounds. One of the few fighters I can see thriving in 15 round fights.

Boxing is about conditioning, not necessarily looks.

Andy Ruiz looks like a fat slob compared to most of his opponents. But look at the success he has had.

Show me the statistics and evidenced which backs up that statement? Fury's conditioning is good within this era of Heavyweights, but he has shown zero evidence of having this level of endurance you are speaking of.

Below are some statistics which prove that Fury's endurance, and apparent feats of endurance are overrated. And in part embellished and made up by his hardcore fans.

This is not about me trying to disapprove Tyson Fury as fighter. But I do think his hardcore fans, are putting Fury on a level skill for skill and within his attributes that he has not reached.

Usyk threw over 700 punches vs Joshua in the second fight. And still even with that level of intensity, Usyk appeared still not to have gone completely through all of his gears. This is what you can rate as evidence of elite level endurance, Tyson Fury has never been at this level, definitively not against another World to Elite level fighter.

I.E I compared the statistics of one of Ricky Hatton's 12 round fights, vs Usyk vs Joshua I & II. And the evidence appeared to show that Usyk was producing a higher work rate than Ricky Hatton in that specific fight.

Understand that it appears that Usyk, was pretty much producing a higher intensity and work rate then a peak Ricky Hatton vs Joshua. Fury has never been at this level, he has only been at this level within all the made up stories his hardcore fans create.

So when I say things like, Usyk vs Joshua was a higher level contest than Wilder vs Fury. I am saying it for a reason, at first this was not my perception or opinion of the fight. Because with being honest, I did not enjoy the match up. I preferred the Wilder vs Fury trilogy 1000%, in terms of passion and competition? I think it was a better contest for me, but it was not a higher level contest skill for skill compared to Joshua vs Usyk etc.

All these statements or descriptive's, saying that Fury can move like a middle-weight are in part made up 'They are overrating Fury's ability'.

I still rate Tyson Fury has number 1 Heavyweight. The man has the two best wins in the division. But people mainly his hardcore fans, are putting him on a level of performance that he has never reached.

Have you actually analysed Anthony Joshua's work rate in all of his elite level fights? Have you actually compared his work rate with other heavyweights?

Anthony Joshua is out working or at-least matching Tyson Fury, when you compare their performances.

But for some reason, Tyson Fury apparently has monster level endurance. Monster level endurance that makes you look like a complete state after 2 rounds vs Deontay Wilder III.

It is only really Usyk and Joyce in this era of Heavyweights, who have elite level endurance.

Anthony Joshua's endurance is not super great, but compared to 95% of the other Heavyweights in the game 'Joshua's endurance is satisfactory'.

Does Andy Ruiz Junior have better endurance than Joshua? No.

Here are some statistics for you:

Anthony Joshua's total out put vs Wladimir Kiltschko was 355 punches. The fight lasted into the 11 th round.

Tyson Fury's total out put vs Wladimir Kiltschko was 371 punches.

Anthony Joshua's total out put vs Usyk I was 641 punches. Joshua achieved a higher work rate than Usyk.

Tyson Fury's total out put vs Deontay Wilder I was 327 punches. The fight lasted the full 12 rounds. I.E Deontay Wilder's total out put was 430 punches. The fight was a draw, Fury was backed up all night and decked twice etc.

Anthony Joshua's total out put vs Usyk II was 492 punches.

Tyson Fury's total out put vs Deontay Wilder II was 267 punches.

Conclusion: As you can see, Joshua's endurance is nowhere near as bad as people make out. And a certain Tyson Fury's endurance is completely and utterly overrated by miles. I am not claiming that Joshua's endurance is great, but within this era of heavyweights? It is satisfactory.

I have went on record and stated, that if Fury loses to Uysk 'It will be because he fatigues and starts making mistakes'.

[hhh1200]

Too many people listening to Fury instead of Hill. Fury undisputed.

[removed]

usyk is a slight dog. ill be backing him for the upset win, i think he will do it with relative ease tbh.

Losing money on Fury yet again bud?

You never learn lol

[Richard]

Tyson Fury is one of the best conditioned fighters in boxing. He fights and moves like a middleweight, for 12 rounds. One of the few fighters I can see thriving in 15 round fights.

Boxing is about conditioning, not necessarily looks.

Andy Ruiz looks like a fat slob compared to most of his opponents. But look at the success he has had.

I know Iam stating the obvious but there is always room for improvement. Look at when Tyson Fury fought Wladimir Klitschko. Looked in quite decent condition but since then has never quite reached that level.Whenever Ive seen him since appears to be carrying a bit of fat round the midriff. Compare him to say Joe Joyce. He has a big frame like Fury but Joyce is more muscle .I think its all levels . Eg 82% compared to 90% etc. As for Andy Ruiz I feel had he been more dedicated would have been far more effective. Came in overweight for the first fight against Anthony Joshua and looked even worse in the second fight. You never saw the likes of Floyd Mayweather Jr do that .

[-Kev-]

Show me the statistics and evidenced which backs up that statement? Fury's conditioning is good within this era of Heavyweights, but he has shown zero evidence of having this level of endurance you are speaking of.

Below are some statistics which prove that Fury's endurance, and apparent feats of endurance are overrated. And in part embellished and made up by his hardcore fans.

This is not about me trying to disapprove Tyson Fury as fighter. But I do think his hardcore fans, are putting Fury on a level skill for skill and within his attributes that he has not reached.

Usyk threw over 700 punches vs Joshua in the second fight. And still even with that level of intensity, Usyk appeared still not to have gone completely through all of his gears. This is what you can rate as evidence of elite level endurance, Tyson Fury has never been at this level, definitively not against another World to Elite level fighter.

I.E I compared the statistics of one of Ricky Hatton's 12 round fights, vs Usyk vs Joshua I & II. And the evidence appeared to show that Usyk was producing a higher work rate than Ricky Hatton in that specific fight.

Understand that is appears that Usyk, was pretty much producing a higher intensity and work rate then a peak Ricky Hatton vs Joshua. Fury has never been at this level, he has only been at this level within all the made up stories his hardcore fans create.

So when I say things like, Usyk vs Joshua was a higher level contest than Wilder vs Fury. I am saying it for a reason, at first this was not my perception or opinion of the fight. Because with being honest, I did not enjoy the match up. I preferred the Wilder vs Fury trilogy 1000%, in terms of passion and competition? I think it was a better contest for me, but it was not a higher level contest skill for skill compared to Joshua vs Usyk etc.

All these statements or descriptive's, saying that Fury can move like a middle-weight are in part made up 'They are overrating Fury's ability'.

I still rate Tyson Fury has number 1 Heavyweight. The man has the two best wins in the division. But people mainly his hardcore fans, are putting him on a level of performance that he has never reached.

There is really no such statistics for conditioning. That’s something you observe by watching the fighters and how they fight round by round.

[PRINCEKOOL]

There is really no such statistics for conditioning. That’s something you observe by watching the fighters and how they fight round by round.

There are statistics. I have just posted them.

But? I do understand that you also have things like composure, and behavior during certain pressurizing situations, and then how a fighter reacts when hurt.

These are all aspects of endurance. That is why I say, Fury clearly has good endurance. Especially within this era of Heavyweights.

But I do not think he is on the level of Usyk or Joyce. Fury is from all the evidence and by watching him fight 'Pretty much comparable to Anthony Joshua'.

Fury has not proven that he has miles better endurance than Anthony Joshua. The statistics show things, and also the feats of endurance.

Feats of endurance I.E Anthony Joshua being decked by Kiltschko mid-fight, having to then get back up fight on to later knock out Kiltschko. That is a impressive feat of endurance, in my opinion by far more impressive than Fury getting decked in the 12th round by Wilder 'To then only having to fight on for a few more minutes or even seconds'.

Fury vs Wilder III, depending on how you look at the fight. Shows that Fury's endurance is not super elite, both Wilder & Fury were tanked by the second to third round. Both of them making unforced errors, because they were fatigued. Although the fight was a great match up, and it was a awesome trilogy. The offensive work by both fighters in that fight was not high level, it was not comparable to Bowe vs Holyfield I, II or even III skill for skill.

When I state that Tyson Fury has not fought at elite level skill for skill for 7 years. That does not mean he has not been tested, Fury has been tested in different ways 'Ways other fights may not be able to deal with'.

To beat Deontay Wilder is like trying to climb mount Everest or a mountain. Technically it seems straight forward, but whichever way you go about it? The challenge is extremely dangerous, brutally difficult. It is a test of resolve, courage, bravery, single mindedness, and composure. More than it is a skill for skill technical test.

To beat Usyk, is like trying to fly to the moon and back. It is a test of ingenuity when it comes to violence. It is a test of a fighters analytical skills, it is test of extreme physiological endurance as well as refined thinking inside the ring.

Fury has not really fought at this level or anywhere near this level for since Wladimir Kiltschko

And that is the question, can Tyson Fury still deal with this type of challenge? Peter Fury is no longer his coach, Fury is no longer 246-48 pounds 'His defense and movement are no longer used to the level of his old Riddler style'.

Wilder, Whyte, Chisora none of these guys are going to test him in the same way Usyk is.

But Usyk in comparison, I honestly believe the fights he has been having at cruiser weight and Heavyweight 'Are better preparation than Fury's recent fights skill for skill'.

Anthony Joshua is a super heavyweight, with good speed, good movement, you have seen the statistics his endurance is good within this division, and the man can box from mid-long range at the top level. Joshua skill for skill was a elite level fighter, that is the standard he reached 'Usyk has went 24 rounds with him, and beat him twice'.

Note: I will say this, if Usyk is to beat Tyson Fury. I think the type he fight he will have to produce, he may be able to only execute this action once. If there is a rematch, Tyson Fury will most likely win especially if he is beaten on points. It might not even be about adapting, Usyk does strikes me as a Heavyweight who wants to beat these other Heavyweights then bounce 'I don't really see the same level of Staying game in Usyk, like we saw in Holyfield'.

And with the two fights he had with Joshua, it was Joshua who improved and got better in the rematch. If there was a third fight, most likely that trajectory would continue 'I think if Joshua was to fight Usyk for the third time, it would potentially be a even closer more competitive fight'.

[Boro]

Your forgetting fury was still relatively green for that fight against cunningham. post wlad he's been a whole different fighter. Not saying usyk can't win just stating the cunningham fight was ages ago hardly a reference point for today's fury with sugarhill steward at the helm.

Fury still says it as his hardest fight, it's not me saying it pal...

And as I pointed out at the top of the post he's regressed in technical skills and become a better fighter under sugar not sure that bodes well for a fight with Usyk.