Who is the better boxer: Devin Haney or Shakur Stevenson?

[Cypocryphy]

You're just a hater with Shakur right now, I can't do a back and forth with you on this. You're going to resist 100% no matter what I say, not interested.

Dude drinks a coffee and you're on him like crazy. If you can't see the angles, I'm not going to be able to help you see them.

What do you mean?

Look what Shoulder roll posted right before you replied. So you're saying we're wrong? There's an easy way to fix this. Find a clip Shakur taking an angle. Shakur is a hype job. Ryan Garcia just talked about how he clearly out jabbed him in the amateurs but because of the "Shakur Bias," they gave Shakur the round. He's had favoritism all his life because he's talented. But he's no where near the talent level that people are making him out to be.

Tim Witherspoon talked a bit about that:

I mean people are seeing him do things that he never does!! It's crazy!! Taking angles ... lmao ... yea right!

[War Room]

What do you mean?

Look what Shoulder roll posted right before you replied. So you're saying we're wrong? There's an easy way to fix this. Find a clip Shakur taking an angle. Shakur is a hype job. Ryan Garcia just talked about how he clearly out jabbed him in the amateurs but because of the "Shakur Bias," they gave Shakur the round. He's had favoritism all his life because he's talented. But he's no where near the talent level that people are making him out to be.



I mean people are seeing him do things that he never does!! It's crazy!! Taking angles ... lmao ... yea right!

Yes, I'm saying you're both wrong. You don't even know what angles are, you're talking about "taking an angle" what is that? You throw punches on angles, you don't take an angle. Boxers move and attack in angles but that's all basic year 1 stuff. When experts are talking about angles, it's the angle of the punch. More about that below

Video Breakdown
Witherspoon contradicts himself a few times in the video. At 0:32 he says Shakur should get on the outside of his opponents left hand and then at 0:42 he's like Oh that's unusual what Shakur just did. How do you know Tim, because you haven't seen him fight much. He'll admit to this later. Tim's problem here is he's improvising dialogue and not rehearsing the video before shooting it and in turn shooting himself in the foot.

Here's your atypical angle from outside the pocket.



Shakur checks the guard and fires an low straight left to the body. You only see a Mayweather type doing these stabs as he's coined them. Highly advanced move and it shuts Tim up. Try that in a real fight or sparring without high level skill and you're going to get hurt.

FFW on to 0:43 Shakur is outside the pocket landing crisp combinations, well Tim =---> what happened to Shakur standing right in front of him? Oh, he's not? Again, you got to rehearse YouTube content before recording so you don't look ******. You'll see in this small clip Shakur moving inside and outside the pocket on a master level.

At :50 Tim's like but he's still in front of him (Shakur said he wanted to walk him down and beat him at his own game so people don't say he's a runner), but he should really be inside, uh uh uh outside of the lead hands.

He doesn't even know what he's saying lol. Come on!
As soon as he says that, Shakur moves outside the lead hand and slips a left hook at 0:57. I mean, you can't make this shit up. Witherspoon is a dumpsterfire right now.

The Witherspoon then starts saying what Valdez should be doing because he realizes he's shot himself in the foot. Well I thought this was about Shakur and how he needs more angles lol?

From 1:18 - 1:23 Shakur is making him miss badly and Witherspoon says Oh Shakur is doing some unusual things with his hands, maybe he lacks a little defense defense more. Bro, he's giving a masterclass right now making Valdez miss, using lateral movement, and you're punking yourself on camera.

At 1:32 he says he needs to watch more of him. Yes my guy, you should do more research before posting content.

Then around 2:00 he says Oh I didn't see him slipping to the outside and moving in. Shakur literally just did that before you paused it.

Like I said before, Shakur wanted to walk Valdez down and beat him at his own game. He said it right after the fight. He doesn't want the negative press of being a runner and still he gets faulted for it. Crazy!

Angles
When people talk about angles, it's the angle of punches. You just don't throw a tucked perfect straight jab every time. In the highest levels of boxing, you triple jab at 3 different angles. Doesn't matter where you're standing. You can be right in front of him, that's the power of angles! That's boxing mastery.

In Shakurs last fight, Robson Conceição was a 2 time gold medalist. I had no idea what his credentials were, I thought he was some bum with a 17-1 record, but he was pretty damned good even though he lost almost every round. The pace was too much and Shakur's angles were just too much. The way he throws punchs are a dream for any other person learning boxing out there.

Tim had a good early career, but there is absolutely nothing he can teach Shakur. Shakur could teach Tim a lot of things. Tim was a basic HW who was exceptionally good at a few tools he had.

As far as you're concerned
You're all over the place. One minute you dislike him because he missed weight. He was eating Stabucks junk and a Mochachino (no proof, could have been black coffee) and if he loses he'll never recover...and I think you said there was a good chance he would lose which clearly wasn't even close to happening. You jumped from questioning his mental fortitude like you grew up with him, now it's his skills? You're acting like a typical hater for some unknown reason. I don't know you good enough to know what it is exactly, but maybe you just hate Shakur because his ability is extremely high. Plenty of people hated Floyd because he was the best, maybe if I look at your older posts, maybe you hate Floyd too, what do you think?

Meanwhile we got Andre Ward calling him a master boxer. Hmm, who am I going to lean towards, a haterade drinking poster or Andre Ward, hard choice.

[Inoue Body Shot]

Shakur vs Haney is such a great fight!!! One of my favorite fights!!

[Cypocryphy]

Yes, I'm saying you're both wrong. You don't even know what angles are, you're talking about "taking an angle" what is that? You throw punches on angles, you don't take an angle. Boxers move and attack in angles but that's all basic year 1 stuff. When experts are talking about angles, it's the angle of the punch. More about that below

Video Breakdown
Witherspoon contradicts himself a few times in the video. At 0:32 he says Shakur should get on the outside of his opponents left hand and then at 0:42 he's like Oh that's unusual what Shakur just did. How do you know Tim, because you haven't seen him fight much. He'll admit to this later. Tim's problem here is he's improvising dialogue and not rehearsing the video before shooting it and in turn shooting himself in the foot.

Here's your atypical angle from outside the pocket.



Shakur checks the guard and fires an low straight left to the body. You only see a Mayweather type doing these stabs as he's coined them. Highly advanced move and it shuts Tim up. Try that in a real fight or sparring without high level skill and you're going to get hurt.

FFW on to 0:43 Shakur is outside the pocket landing crisp combinations, well Tim =---> what happened to Shakur standing right in front of him? Oh, he's not? Again, you got to rehearse YouTube content before recording so you don't look ******. You'll see in this small clip Shakur moving inside and outside the pocket on a master level.

At :50 Tim's like but he's still in front of him (Shakur said he wanted to walk him down and beat him at his own game so people don't say he's a runner), but he should really be inside, uh uh uh outside of the lead hands.

He doesn't even know what he's saying lol. Come on!
As soon as he says that, Shakur moves outside the lead hand and slips a left hook at 0:57. I mean, you can't make this shit up. Witherspoon is a dumpsterfire right now.

The Witherspoon then starts saying what Valdez should be doing because he realizes he's shot himself in the foot. Well I thought this was about Shakur and how he needs more angles lol?

From 1:18 - 1:23 Shakur is making him miss badly and Witherspoon says Oh Shakur is doing some unusual things with his hands, maybe he lacks a little defense defense more. Bro, he's giving a masterclass right now making Valdez miss, using lateral movement, and you're punking yourself on camera.

At 1:32 he says he needs to watch more of him. Yes my guy, you should do more research before posting content.

Then around 2:00 he says Oh I didn't see him slipping to the outside and moving in. Shakur literally just did that before you paused it.

Like I said before, Shakur wanted to walk Valdez down and beat him at his own game. He said it right after the fight. He doesn't want the negative press of being a runner and still he gets faulted for it. Crazy!

Angles
When people talk about angles, it's the angle of punches. You just don't throw a tucked perfect straight jab every time. In the highest levels of boxing, you triple jab at 3 different angles. Doesn't matter where you're standing. You can be right in front of him, that's the power of angles! That's boxing mastery.

In Shakurs last fight, Robson Conceição was a 2 time gold medalist. I had no idea what his credentials were, I thought he was some bum with a 17-1 record, but he was pretty damned good even though he lost almost every round. The pace was too much and Shakur's angles were just too much. The way he throws punchs are a dream for any other person learning boxing out there.

Tim had a good early career, but there is absolutely nothing he can teach Shakur. Shakur could teach Tim a lot of things. Tim was a basic HW who was exceptionally good at a few tools he had.

As far as you're concerned
You're all over the place. One minute you dislike him because he missed weight. He was eating Stabucks junk and a Mochachino (no proof, could have been black coffee) and if he loses he'll never recover...and I think you said there was a good chance he would lose which clearly wasn't even close to happening. You jumped from questioning his mental fortitude like you grew up with him, now it's his skills? You're acting like a typical hater for some unknown reason. I don't know you good enough to know what it is exactly, but maybe you just hate Shakur because his ability is extremely high. Plenty of people hated Floyd because he was the best, maybe if I look at your older posts, maybe you hate Floyd too, what do you think?

Meanwhile we got Andre Ward calling him a master boxer. Hmm, who am I going to lean towards, a haterade drinking poster or Andre Ward, hard choice.

Punching from an angle and taking an angle are different things, and nobody is going to get those two confused. I will emphasize and repeat myself—Shakur is a linear fighter, and if he leans offline to throw an angled punch (e.g., an up jab), is not the same as taking an angle.

This is a long post you made, so I'll have to come back to it when I have more time. I'll gladly hash this out with you. You'll see it my way, I'm sure, just like you now have come to see "effective punching" as I do.

[SweetPbfAli]

Something that worries about Haney is he's a bit stiff. When I watch him, I always feel like he's going to get clipped with something because he isn't fluid in his motions defensively. It's weird.

[Cypocryphy]

e

FFW on to 0:43 Shakur is outside the pocket landing crisp combinations, well Tim =---> what happened to Shakur standing right in front of him? Oh, he's not? Again, you got to rehearse YouTube content before recording so you don't look ******. You'll see in this small clip Shakur moving inside and outside the pocket on a master level.

Okay. Fair enough. He took an outside angle right there. However, he has to because he's a southpaw fighting an orthodox fighter to land his left hand. An open stance inherently requires stepping to the outside to open punching lanes. This is the extent of Shakur's taking an angle.

At :50 Tim's like but he's still in front of him (Shakur said he wanted to walk him down and beat him at his own game so people don't say he's a runner), but he should really be inside, uh uh uh outside of the lead hands.

Yeah. I'm not sure what you're saying right there. Valdez is constantly getting an angle on Shakur. CONSTANTLY. As I had predicted, Shakur ate that lead right ALL NIGHT LONG. This is an example of Shakur NOT taking an angle.

He doesn't even know what he's saying lol. Come on!
As soon as he says that, Shakur moves outside the lead hand and slips a left hook at 0:57. I mean, you can't make this shit up. Witherspoon is a dumpsterfire right now.

See that? See what you just did here? You just supported my argument. By stepping backward, linearly—as I have been saying. Thank you.

The Witherspoon then starts saying what Valdez should be doing because he realizes he's shot himself in the foot. Well I thought this was about Shakur and how he needs more angles lol?

I don't know about that because he started off saying that neither guy was using angles that much. You see at 0:23 he says "neither one of them is doing on angles ...." So how did he shoot himself in the foot when he's saying Valdez should be taking more angles on Shakur?

From 1:18 - 1:23 Shakur is making him miss badly and Witherspoon says Oh Shakur is doing some unusual things with his hands, maybe he lacks a little defense defense more. Bro, he's giving a masterclass right now making Valdez miss, using lateral movement, and you're punking yourself on camera.

Yeah! By going backwards!! On a line! Just like I said. And the first punch almost hits him.

[

B]At 1:3[/B]2 he says he needs to watch more of him. Yes my guy, you should do more research before posting content.

Probably because he feels bad that he's laying into him so much.

Then around 2:00 he says Oh I didn't see him slipping to the outside and moving in. Shakur literally just did that before you paused it.

When? I didn't see it either.

Like I said before, Shakur wanted to walk Valdez down and beat him at his own game. He said it right after the fight. He doesn't want the negative press of being a runner and still he gets faulted for it. Crazy!

That might be true but how is walking a guy down prohibiting him from using angles? lol! Make it make sense!! You take angles by launching an offense, pressing forward, not by fighting on the back foot. Come on man!

Angles
When people talk about angles, it's the angle of punches. You just don't throw a tucked perfect straight jab every time. In the highest levels of boxing, you triple jab at 3 different angles. Doesn't matter where you're standing. You can be right in front of him, that's the power of angles! That's boxing mastery.

In Shakurs last fight, Robson Conceição was a 2 time gold medalist. I had no idea what his credentials were, I thought he was some bum with a 17-1 record, but he was pretty damned good even though he lost almost every round. The pace was too much and Shakur's angles were just too much. The way he throws punchs are a dream for any other person learning boxing out there.

Like I said. Punching at an angle, such as slipping outside and up jabbing is NOT THE SAME THING AS TAKING AN ANGLE! Punches come from different tranjectories, like Golovkin's looping overhand or Lopez's recent knockdown of Campas. Neither one is taking an angel. There are many angles one can use, the most basic of which is lead foot dominance in an open stance situation. Even though Shakur did get lead foot dominance on occasion, it was actually Valdez who held that position more often in the fight—by a lot.

Tim had a good early career, but there is absolutely nothing he can teach Shakur. Shakur could teach Tim a lot of things. Tim was a basic HW who was exceptionally good at a few tools he had.

As far as you're concerned
You're all over the place. One minute you dislike him because he missed weight. He was eating Stabucks junk and a Mochachino (no proof, could have been black coffee) and if he loses he'll never recover...and I think you said there was a good chance he would lose which clearly wasn't even close to happening. You jumped from questioning his mental fortitude like you grew up with him, now it's his skills? You're acting like a typical hater for some unknown reason. I don't know you good enough to know what it is exactly, but maybe you just hate Shakur because his ability is extremely high. Plenty of people hated Floyd because he was the best, maybe if I look at your older posts, maybe you hate Floyd too, what do you think?

Meanwhile we got Andre Ward calling him a master boxer. Hmm, who am I going to lean towards, a haterade drinking poster or Andre Ward, hard choice.

Yeah. A master at using a nut sack as a speed back. Ward is definitely teach Shakur a lot.

[Cypocryphy]

e

Okay. Fair enough. He took an outside angle right there. However, he has to because he's a southpaw fighting an orthodox fighter to land his left hand. An open stance inherently requires stepping to the outside to open punching lanes. This is the extent of Shakur's taking an angle.



Yeah. I'm not sure what you're saying right there. Valdez is constantly getting an angle on Shakur. CONSTANTLY. As I had predicted, Shakur ate that lead right ALL NIGHT LONG. This is an example of Shakur NOT taking an angle.



See that? See what you just did here? You just supported my argument. By stepping backward, linearly—as I have been saying. Thank you.



I don't know about that because he started off saying that neither guy was using angles that much. You see at 0:23 he says "neither one of them is doing on angles ...." So how did he shoot himself in the foot when he's saying Valdez should be taking more angles on Shakur?



Yeah! By going backwards!! On a line! Just like I said. And the first punch almost hits him.

[

Probably because he feels bad that he's laying into him so much.




When? I didn't see it either.



That might be true but how is walking a guy down prohibiting him from using angles? lol! Make it make sense!! You take angles by launching an offense, pressing forward, not by fighting on the back foot. Come on man!



Like I said. Punching at an angle, such as slipping outside and up jabbing is NOT THE SAME THING AS TAKING AN ANGLE! Punches come from different tranjectories, like Golovkin's looping overhand or Lopez's recent knockdown of Campas. Neither one is taking an angel. There are many angles one can use, the most basic of which is lead foot dominance in an open stance situation. Even though Shakur did get lead foot dominance on occasion, it was actually Valdez who held that position more often in the fight—by a lot.



Yeah. A master at using a nut sack as a speed back. Ward is definitely teach Shakur a lot.

I want to just correct myself here in saying that you can take angles by going backward with a fighter pressing. Regardless, Shakur wasn't doing that. He could do that but he's not. And usually fighters will use various angles, left side and right side, to various degrees, going forward or backward, on both orthodox and southpaws. However, it's much more difficult to take angles going backward because of balance issues and timing. Well ... I suppose it's just a matter of practice. Notwithstanding, Shakur is doing neither.

[maguirre]

Both fighters haven't really been in big fights. Stevenson for one is in a weak division, so you can't really put that on him.

While Haney is in a division full of talents and dangerous fighters, but has only fought the weaker ones. He doesn't have the likes of Commey, Pedraza, Nakatani, Lopez didn't materialize, Garcia, Davis have yet to happen.

[War Room]

Okay. Fair enough. He took an outside angle right there. However, he has to because he's a southpaw fighting an orthodox fighter to land his left hand. An open stance inherently requires stepping to the outside to open punching lanes. This is the extent of Shakur's taking an angle.

It's not the outside angle, it's the pocket. Nobody calls those angles, it's the pocket. Shakur can land any punch he wants inside or outside the pocket because has is a master boxer and his angles are master level.

Yeah. I'm not sure what you're saying right there. Valdez is constantly getting an angle on Shakur. CONSTANTLY. As I had predicted, Shakur ate that lead right ALL NIGHT LONG. This is an example of Shakur NOT taking an angle.

I'm quoting Tim, I think it's pretty clear. What's not clear?

See that? See what you just did here? You just supported my argument. By stepping backward, linearly—as I have been saying. Thank you.

Shakur moves in all directions, he's a master boxer.

I don't know about that because he started off saying that neither guy was using angles that much. You see at 0:23 he says "neither one of them is doing on angles ...." So how did he shoot himself in the foot when he's saying Valdez should be taking more angles on Shakur?

The video is about Shakur and what he does or doesn't do, not about what Valdez should be doing.

Yeah! By going backwards!! On a line! Just like I said. And the first punch almost hits him.

He shuffles back twice then circles with lateral movement. It's all right there, you're only seeing what you want to see.

Probably because he feels bad that he's laying into him so much.

No way, it's because he's clearly getting contradicted by the film. He says something and gets proved wrong a second or so after. He's clearly thinking, I better save face and say I should watch more before I dig any deeper.

When? I didn't see it either.

1:22. He moves laterally and moves right in.

That might be true but how is walking a guy down prohibiting him from using angles? lol! Make it make sense!! You take angles by launching an offense, pressing forward, not by fighting on the back foot. Come on man!

Make it make sense? SMH lol, this is nearly impossible, you're such a hater! You walk a guy down moving forward. You want him to shuffle side to side, switch stances, cartwheel etc? He said he wanted to walk him down and that's what he did!

Like I said. Punching at an angle, such as slipping outside and up jabbing is NOT THE SAME THING AS TAKING AN ANGLE! Punches come from different tranjectories, like Golovkin's looping overhand or Lopez's recent knockdown of Campas. Neither one is taking an angel. There are many angles one can use, the most basic of which is lead foot dominance in an open stance situation. Even though Shakur did get lead foot dominance on occasion, it was actually Valdez who held that position more often in the fight—by a lot.

Punching at an angle has nothing to do with slipping. I can stand right in front of you and jab at 6+ different angles without moving my feet.

I'm going to say it one last time and I'm not going to say it again, when people talk about angles its the angle of the punch. Not the angle of their feet. It's not a discussion, remotely.

Yeah. A master at using a nut sack as a speed back. Ward is definitely teach Shakur a lot.

I agree, Ward is a dirty fighter. But he's also exceptional at all styles of boxing. If Ward calls you a master boxer, that's a great compliment. One thing Ward doesn't do is fluff fighters up. He's known to be honest.

[Cypocryphy]

I agree, Ward is a dirty fighter. But he's also exceptional at all styles of boxing. If Ward calls you a master boxer, that's a great compliment. One thing Ward doesn't do is fluff fighters up. He's known to be honest.

Dude!! What?! Ward doesn't fluff fighters up?! He's a "fluffer" through and through. The man's face is covered in Shakur's ****. He literally gave Shakur every round in the that fight, which is nonsense. Nobody gave Shakur every round. Ward has become one of the most biased guys in boxing right now, especially when Shakur fights. Go around to all the forums and see what they're saying about Ward.

I was on Reddit the other day (not posting because I was banned awhile ago but still like reading the comments), and just look at what everyone is saying about Ward. Or go to BoxingNews 24 and see what everyone is saying. And I DO MEAN EVERYONE.

The man is the ultimate Shakur simp. It's disgusting.