Who is the better boxer: Devin Haney or Shakur Stevenson?

[QueensburyRules]

- - Heinie may be a stinker, but it gonna stink real bad where Tanksy goin' down.

[War Room]

Dude!! What?! Ward doesn't fluff fighters up?! He's a "fluffer" through and through. The man's face is covered in Shakur's ****. He literally gave Shakur every round in the that fight, which is nonsense. Nobody gave Shakur every round. Ward has become one of the most biased guys in boxing right now, especially when Shakur fights. Go around to all the forums and see what they're saying about Ward.

I was on Reddit the other day (not posting because I was banned awhile ago but still like reading the comments), and just look at what everyone is saying about Ward. Or go to BoxingNews 24 and see what everyone is saying. And I DO MEAN EVERYONE.

The man is the ultimate Shakur simp. It's disgusting.

Ward is not a fluffer by any stretch, come on man this is just false! He calls it like he see's it on a regular basis.

I've seen him be very critical of fighters throughout the years when they deserve it and of any race. Shakur is the same way, he doesn't play the race card like a lot of black fighters do and I respect that. Anyway, I can't say the same of other past fighters. Most of these guys say good things about everybody and never lay into them.

He likes Shakur, so what? The scores were 117 (2x) and 118. That's with a point deduction for low blows. That would have brought it to 118 (2x) and 119 if he wasn't hitting low, pretty damned close to 120.

Reddit is the #2 cancer of the internet right behind 4chan, you're really going to use reddit for proof?

Honest question because I want to learn: when did you realize you didn't like Shakur?

[The D3vil]

Shakur is the more skilled fighter, but Haney's bigger & appears to be stronger, so I'd take him if they fought.

[Cypocryphy]

Ward is not a fluffer by any stretch, come on man this is just false! He calls it like he see's it on a regular basis.

lol You're in denial. That's cool.

I've seen him be very critical of fighters throughout the years when they deserve it and of any race. Shakur is the same way, he doesn't play the race card like a lot of black fighters do and I respect that. Anyway, I can't say the same of other past fighters. Most of these guys say good things about everybody and never lay into them.

Ward is a good guy, RELATIVELY. Yeah, he's not racist, and he's very fair in certain situations, so long as he doesn't have an emotional connection to someone. So for example, Canelo, Golovkin or Shakur. When he gets emotional, he becomes one of the most biased MF out there.

Speaking of which, since you're praising Ward's impartiality so much, then you must agree that Teofimo Lopez never beat Loma. Ward doesn't think Lopez beat Loma, and since he's so fair and impartial, since you respect him so much, then you must think the same.

He likes Shakur, so what? The scores were 117 (2x) and 118. That's with a point deduction for low blows. That would have brought it to 118 (2x) and 119 if he wasn't hitting low, pretty damned close to 120.

I'm not backing off that. Shakur was getting outboxed the first three rounds (and several rounds later). He couldn't get Robson's timing down and Robson had Shakur's timing down in a matter of seconds. I suppose that's the difference between a gold medalist and a silver medalist. It wasn't until Shakur, with his bloated body, started marching forward, eating shots, walking through them and low blowing Robson, that the fight turned around. I wonder what the scores would have been had the judges not counted those non-scoring shots? Or given Robson credit for all of his connected shots? Compubox had it that Robson landed four body shots in almost the whole fight. **** was UNREAL!! He landed more than four in the first round.

Reddit is the #2 cancer of the internet right behind 4chan, you're really going to use reddit for proof?

Reddit is okay in some situations. I'm just banned from the boxing subreddit. That used to be my forum of choice. But yeah, the moderators there suck, and the members at the time I was there were Canelo fanatics or something. I'd post a video of Golovkin, showing how he had one of the best chins in boxing, and then I was accused of trolling by the moderators. Then I'd make a comment and the next thing I know I had like a 1,000 downvotes by 1,000 fanboys and I would be suspended from commenting. Crap like that happened all the time. But that aside, the subreddit has some knowledgable people in there, with some good posting.

Other subreddits? Yeah. Toxic. 4chan crap. But the demographic on the boxing subreddit has changed since I was there. People are a lot more tolerant of different opinions. Maybe there are new moderators there.

Anyway, you can check ************'s forum, and you'll see the same thing.

Honest question because I want to learn: when did you realize you didn't like Shakur?

Yeah. I'll tell you why. First, I notice Shakur using dirty tactics in all his fights, and not just here and there but all the time. For example, you had him fighting Nakathila, and Shakur was stepping on his foot every chance he got. It was such an issue that the referee couldn't even watch them fight but had to constantly watch their feet. That's how much of a problem it was. Nakathila would try to step back to get away or step forward to close the distance but he couldn't because Shakur's foot was on top of his. Then Ward starts complaining about the ref paying too much attention to their feet and that it was ridiculous. Either he was oblivious to the 200 times Shakur stepping on the guys foot or he was face deep in Shakur's ass.

Then, you had him fighting Valdez. I'll have to go back, but he was constantly measuring Valdez. Bayless warned him but not so much as when he penalized Valdez for grabbing Shakur's outstretched arm to get it out of his face. Back half of the fight, Shakur was constantly measuring. But no penalty again. Because we know how Top Rank works.

After that, we had the low blows against Robson. So apparently, Shakur Stevenson, the most skilled boxer in boxing today, has to cheat to get the upper hand on his opponents. After seeing this pattern from him again and again, you start to question how skilled he really is if he has to cheat in all of his fights.

On top of all of this, I watch him fight and fail to see where the skill is! Yes, he's very skilled, but so too are many other boxers. Shakur relies on his reflexes almost exclusively, kind of like RJJ, except Roy was much more dynamic and exciting.

This is Shakur: Step forward, pull counter, step back. Step forward, pull counter. Step forward, parry then pull counter. It's the same **** again and again. Just like Witherspoon said, this guy is stuck on railroad tracks. This is why he constantly gets pushed up against the ropes, which will be his downfall later. (Remember this comment.) He will get dropped as someone his own size cracks him while he's up against the ropes.

The other thing is that I see how much his physical size is allowing him to win these fights. He beat Robson because he was the bigger guy in the ring. Yeah. That's right. Shakur was the bigger guy. He had about 20 pounds on Robson. You couldn't even see Shakur's abs in the ring. This allowed him to walk through Robson's punches (who doesn't punch hard in the first place) and bully him. Bully him with low blows.

I can't respect someone who fights like that. Plus, his personality is ****e. Haney is actually a well-spoken guy, shows respect and is a true professional. He may talk a lot of **** on twitter, but aside from that, he's a good guy. My only issue with Haney is that he fights scared.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. I think that explains the "why" behind my Shakur criticisms.

[War Room]

lol You're in denial. That's cool.

You're a hater for little reason, not really cool tbh.

Ward is a good guy, RELATIVELY. Yeah, he's not racist, and he's very fair in certain situations, so long as he doesn't have an emotional connection to someone. So for example, Canelo, Golovkin or Shakur. When he gets emotional, he becomes one of the most biased MF out there.

Speaking of which, since you're praising Ward's impartiality so much, then you must agree that Teofimo Lopez never beat Loma. Ward doesn't think Lopez beat Loma, and since he's so fair and impartial, since you respect him so much, then you must think the same.

Calm down lol. Saying a few decent words about Ward means I'm a blind fan that believes everything he says no does it? Speaking of emotional, you're getting a bit emotional here. Weird.

I'm not backing off that. Shakur was getting outboxed the first three rounds (and several rounds later). He couldn't get Robson's timing down and Robson had Shakur's timing down in a matter of seconds. I suppose that's the difference between a gold medalist and a silver medalist. It wasn't until Shakur, with his bloated body, started marching forward, eating shots, walking through them and low blowing Robson, that the fight turned around. I wonder what the scores would have been had the judges not counted those non-scoring shots? Or given Robson credit for all of his connected shots? Compubox had it that Robson landed four body shots in almost the whole fight. **** was UNREAL!! He landed more than four in the first round.

I just went back and rewatched the first three rounds to make 100% sure and Robson won the first round, that's it.

Rounds 2 and 3 Shakur clearly won. I think what you're doing is just watching Robson, you see him land a few punches, and that's good enough for you because you dislike Shakur so much. He did land punches, but Shakur landed more in return.

Shakur looks exactly the same body wise against Robson as compared to Valdez, I just looked to make sure. Haha, you're livid right now.

Compubox is historically off, this is a newsflash?

I think Shakur should have been deducted more points for low blows, I agree with you there.

Yeah. I'll tell you why. First, I notice Shakur using dirty tactics in all his fights, and not just here and there but all the time. For example, you had him fighting Nakathila, and Shakur was stepping on his foot every chance he got. It was such an issue that the referee couldn't even watch them fight but had to constantly watch their feet. That's how much of a problem it was. Nakathila would try to step back to get away or step forward to close the distance but he couldn't because Shakur's foot was on top of his. Then Ward starts complaining about the ref paying too much attention to their feet and that it was ridiculous. Either he was oblivious to the 200 times Shakur stepping on the guys foot or he was face deep in Shakur's ass.

WTH now I have to go watch the Nakathila fight, brb. I'm only doing 3 rounds, I'm not watching feet for 12 rounds.

I'm at 1:24 of round 1 and Nakathila has stepped on Shakurs foot 3x and also the first one to do it lol, you can't make this shit up dude! Look at all these entries of Nakathila stepping on Shakurs foot!!!

1. 2:36
2. 1:39
3. 1:26
4. 1:22
5. 0:56
6. 0:35
7. 0:30
8. 0:28
9. 0:23

At 0:21 the ref warns Nakathila for stepping on his foot. Dude what the hell are you on??

Shakur steps on Nakathila at

1. 1:37
2. 1:17 (Nakathila literally stepping under his foot lol)
3. 0:49
4. 0:31

Number 2 doesn't count so you got stepping on feet 3x more than Shakur. I cant watch anymore feet. I've seen enough in one round. You literally hate Shakur so much for being good you're lying with this feet thing. Come on man!

Then, you had him fighting Valdez. I'll have to go back, but he was constantly measuring Valdez. Bayless warned him but not so much as when he penalized Valdez for grabbing Shakur's outstretched arm to get it out of his face. Back half of the fight, Shakur was constantly measuring. But no penalty again. Because we know how Top Rank works.

Nobody in the history boxing has lost points for measuring. If they did, I've never seen it and I've seen over 10,000 matches. I don't think it's a cool thing to do, I've had it done to me, but we're not talking Andre Ward dirt level. You're reaching big time here.

After that, we had the low blows against Robson. So apparently, Shakur Stevenson, the most skilled boxer in boxing today, has to cheat to get the upper hand on his opponents. After seeing this pattern from him again and again, you start to question how skilled he really is if he has to cheat in all of his fights.

I 100% agree on the low blows. Total nonsense and he should have lost more points. I honestly don't think it's intentional, but the ref not being more proactive with deductions is part of the reason why it kept happening, obviously. If the ref took more points, I think Shakur would have made more of a conscious effort to be aware of his ANGLES lol.

On top of all of this, I watch him fight and fail to see where the skill is! Yes, he's very skilled.

You fail to see the skill, yes he is skilled? Whut???

Shakur relies on his reflexes almost exclusively, kind of like RJJ, except Roy was much more dynamic and exciting.

You're really not going to start with the reason RJJ was so good was because of him relying on his reflexes are you? RJJ was a grandmaster of boxing and could do whatever he wanted because of his trained talents. His Dad had a board with nails coming out of it over RJJ's head and Roy had to box under it for bob/weaving drills. Chris Byrd's Dad made him spar with his siblings inside a hugh truck tire, which is why he got so good at defense. These are not talents these guys are born with, they were trained.

This is Shakur: Step forward, pull counter, step back. Step forward, pull counter. Step forward, parry then pull counter. It's the same **** again and again. Just like Witherspoon said, this guy is stuck on railroad tracks. This is why he constantly gets pushed up against the ropes, which will be his downfall later. (Remember this comment.) He will get dropped as someone his own size cracks him while he's up against the ropes.

First round here and not a single pull counter. I see a lot of feints, jabs, left hands, 1-2's, straight rights to the body, hooks, everything but!

You're continiously just making stuff up. Why make false accusations when you know for damned sure I'm going to call you out on it??

The other thing is that I see how much his physical size is allowing him to win these fights. He beat Robson because he was the bigger guy in the ring. Yeah. That's right. Shakur was the bigger guy.

Again, making stuff up like really bad now.



He looks like a shrimp in comparison. Not satisfied?

Robsons has the size of two Shakurs heads lmao.

He had about 20 pounds on Robson. You couldn't even see Shakur's abs in the ring. This allowed him to walk through Robson's punches (who doesn't punch hard in the first place) and bully him. Bully him with low blows.

How do you know he had 20lbs on him? Stop it.

I can't respect someone who fights like that. Plus, his personality is ****e. Haney is actually a well-spoken guy, shows respect and is a true professional. He may talk a lot of **** on twitter, but aside from that, he's a good guy. My only issue with Haney is that he fights scared.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. I think that explains the "why" behind my Shakur criticisms.

That docu you showed me, Shakur is super cool! He's all about giving back to the kids in the community, well spoken. The hate you have for him is just nuts.

You know what you are, you're just another one of these haters that hate because Shakur is so good. It makes you so mad that he's the best in the sport that you have to come up with all kinds of literally false claims to try and prove your point.

Old War Room won't stand for it and I do believe I proved it here in this post.

Moving forward, I'm not going to this extent in future posts, this shit took hella time. If you don't step your game up here, you're not getting responses back.