At what point will Floyd Mayweather get the credit he deserves?

[hugh grant]

For Pacquiao, I was a dead man walking before I even got into the ring because I had to get to 147 pounds. I went down to 140 a month before the fight and I hadn’t seen 140 in ages. There’s no excuse. He beat me. But I wasn’t in the fight even before it started.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...428-story.html

DLH probably thought he was going to beat pac when they were both in ring and touched gloves and was confident Pac would be easy beat. That dlh lost so badly of course he is going to use excuses. He doesn't want the world to think that was the best dlh, as he cares about his legacy. It's in dlh best interests to claim that wasn't him at his best, damage limitation. But how fair is that to Pac though?

When Pac says he injured his shoulder against floyd you don't take it seriously though do you? So whatever t he situation you don't show any empathy for pac?

[LeOoze]

DLH probably thought he was going to beat pac when they were both in ring and touched gloves and was confident Pac would be easy beat. That dlh lost so badly of course he is going to use excuses. He doesn't want the world to think that was the best dlh, as he cares about his legacy. It's in dlh best interests to claim that wasn't him at his best, damage limitation. But how fair is that to Pac though?

When Pac says he injured his shoulder against floyd you don't take it seriously though do you? So whatever t he situation you don't show any empathy for pac?

I give credit to Pac because he jumped up 2 weight classes, and yes he was the underdog. But hindsight is 20/20. That Oscar was nowhere near the best Oscar. Oscar was documented in the early 2000s talking about how much of a struggle it was to get down to 147, he fought as high as 160 and to gradually go 2 weight classes down? At 35? That finishes you.

[Boxing-1013]

The point is they ALL have guys somebody says they should have fought if Floyd fought Margarito and not Mosley they be saying he ducked Mosley, it's a never-ending circle of one fan crying and another rejoicing, its why I say show me your favorite guys and I will show you who they didn't fight ( ducked) , it applies to everybody that boxed at an elite level, they cannot fight everyone, and that alone opens the door for fans to apply duck to everybody they didn't fight.

As Ive said all along I look at fighters like they are racehorses, I read the form of opponents going in and watch the performance and look at it that way, I don't care what they do outside of the ring it matters not, the boxing is all I care about.

As for prime and not prime this is a fan-created pendulum that swings anyway they lean towards when it suits them, the fact is elite fighters are always within 95% of their best across most of their career, when they fall out of prime they lose a string of fights in a short time and its game over, Floyd has a great resume compared to any fighter during his era, he continually fought and beat the top guys and he fought some guys at weights that favored them not him, even right back to Castillo he had a 10lb handicap on fight night, Oscar outweighed him by a stone coming off KOing a MW, Manny beats a drained 145 Oscar and people want to praise him and rubbish Floyd, that kind of stuff is fan BS., if you want to break down Floyds resume start a thread and we will compare it to any fighter during his era, head to head you pick whoever you like, Ive offered this to Manny fans many times they don't want none of that.

My point is nobody has a perfect resume, and I mean nobody, when you weigh up the entire body of work across 20 yrs Mayweather was without a doubt the best fighter of his era, I don't get into best ever and all that BS, but his era without a doubt he was the best.

I just don't look at the wins on his resume as face value wins. Like I said, he was a great boxer, especially at the lower weights. But as he aged, he became a superstar, and he took advantage of the A side status, and didn't have to take any real risks.

All you can do is evaluate the form of a fighter going in, and go from there. I was more impressed with Floyd's wins at lightweight and below. Honestly there isn't a win of his after Baldomir that I take at face value, and I don't say that with any ill-intent. It's just every name after Baldomir has a bit of an asterisk if we are being honest.

As I said before though, definitely a great boxer. And definitely the best boxer-businessman I've ever seen. He could have taken more risks, but what for? He made like a billion dollars, good for him. He did exactly what he should have done.

[Roadblock]

Cotto didn't have a near death beating. Stop it. Just stop it. He lost to Manny as did Oscar.

So let me get this straight. A shopworn Cotto was fine and Jim dandy when Floyd fought him, yet was near death when Manny fought him closer to his prime.
Only because Manny spanked him far better than Floyd did I am quite sure is why you working overtime with the excuses.
Same thing with Oscar, who had every advantage going into the fight with Manny, somehow the excuses rain down after Manny retired him for good. Same version of Oscar that Floyd fought a year or so prior.

You Floyd boys just need to accept that the criticism Floyd gets is justified. That Manny is equal to him if not better than him in a lot of ways and has bested him with shared opponents.

Not all wins are of the same value, that's what you throw at Floyd every day yet you totally ignore Manny beating the lesser versions under conditions that handicapped them badly, its not just a win, just like the Gold Medal skater running last and only won because the whole field fell on the last turn.
Cotto did have a terrible beating from plaster in the gloves of Margarito, said he felt like he was being hit by bricks. Then he was given two B grade cans before Manny
Cotto didn't want the CW at all he was coerced by Arum, he didn't even want to put the title on the line, he quickly left Arum and moved up a division.
Manny called Cotto out for his 154 title, Cotto said no problems but no CW, Manny said no fight he knew Cotto is not the same Cotto Cwed version he beat that's why he would not take it, same Cotto is it lol.

Oscar had no advantages he was a dead man walking the worst case of a dehydrated fighter in history, how did he have every advantage when he was so messed up, stop reading hype and look at what's real and what really happened, hindsight is 20/20 vision. I don't blame Manny for Oscars fck up, but it doesn't take the fck away, it happened.

Manny was never as good a boxer as Floyd its proven right through and signed off on by beating Manny head to head.

Stop living in denial and get some integrity, Manny lost to guys that could never beat Floyd in a million years, Manny lost 10% of his fights from early career to his last leaving the game a loser, he was never equal to Mayweather as boxers he was actually a class below him.

[BodyBagz]

Its called liking them both, but taking a hard stance on the hard questions.

A.K.A
Never telling Pac's dirt. Concentrating strictly on PERCEIVED May wrongdoings.

''I can't believe May fought some MMA guy. Pac would NEVER do that !!!''
Pac would IF HE COULD !

''May never fought ANYONE in the primes or their best versions !!!''
May should have followed Pac's example -
PRIME Clottey, Mosley, DLH*, Rios, Broner, Lucas, Algieri*, Cotto*, Margarito*.....

''May ducked Pac in 2010 !!!''
Pac ducked random blood tests.

''May fought Berto !!!''
Berto > Rios, Clottey, Lucas, Broner, HORN, the DLH* that Pac fought......
The mere FACT that Pac fought such BUMS and guys at THEIR worst is de****able. And not a peep from Pac fans. Just ''8 div champ'' GARBAGE.

''Pac fought everyone, never ducked anyone !!!''
Pac ducked a clause free rematch with Cotto
Pac ducked a simple unannounced blood test using the most pitiful excuseS ever. If it weren't for May bumping into Pac at that basketball game, we never would have had the fight at all !

So, if you really are just taking a stance on hard questions, questioN yourself why Pac fought the guys he did WHEN HE DID. Count the number of excuses you use on yourself.

FOH

[Roadblock]

I just don't look at the wins on his resume as face value wins. Like I said, he was a great boxer, especially at the lower weights. But as he aged, he became a superstar, and he took advantage of the A side status, and didn't have to take any real risks.

All you can do is evaluate the form of a fighter going in, and go from there. I was more impressed with Floyd's wins at lightweight and below. Honestly there isn't a win of his after Baldomir that I take at face value, and I don't say that with any ill-intent. It's just every name after Baldomir has a bit of an asterisk if we are being honest.

As I said before though, definitely a great boxer. And definitely the best boxer-businessman I've ever seen. He could have taken more risks, but what for? He made like a billion dollars, good for him. He did exactly what he should have done.

They all do what Floyd does that's the bit you step over, as soon as they hit the big time they call the shots, Ive said all along Floyd has nothing on Manny as far as setting up fights for hiis advantage yet he gets a clear pass, its just wrong be fair across the board something fans cant seem to do, I don't have time to break it down fight for fight but just pick any fighter you like and lets compare resumes and who really takes advantage over opponents, you are trying to isolate Mayweather and never compare him to the others, try it, the criteria you put on him apply to the others and see where it goes.

[hugh grant]

I give credit to Pac because he jumped up 2 weight classes, and yes he was the underdog. But hindsight is 20/20. That Oscar was nowhere near the best Oscar. Oscar was documented in the early 2000s talking about how much of a struggle it was to get down to 147, he fought as high as 160 and to gradually go 2 weight classes down? At 35? That finishes you.

PAC fans can entertain idea that wasn't dlh at his best and if dlh was 100% he could have faired better.
But when nelo says against Floyd he was green and if that he had fought better fighters like cotton, Lara etc etc and gained experience and Floyd fought prime nelo, nelo would beat Floyd, there is no hint of acceptance from Floyd fans that the nelo win wasn't as good as they want it to be? Floyd fans don't accept nelo was drained and that Floyd wanted 150lb initially and told nelo to keep that quiet?

Floyd fans need to take a look at themselves in the mirror and be aware of their contradictory behaviour it's not a good look. Floyd fans don't accept nelo has improved considerably from 1st Floyd fight? They say Floyd beats any version of nelo? But ask Floyd to give rematch and reply is " Floyd don't rematch easy beats"?

[djtmal]

Not all wins are of the same value, that's what you throw at Floyd every day yet you totally ignore Manny beating the lesser versions under conditions that handicapped them badly, its not just a win, just like the Gold Medal skater running last and only won because the whole field fell on the last turn.
Cotto did have a terrible beating from plaster in the gloves of Margarito, said he felt like he was being hit by bricks. Then he was given two B grade cans before Manny
Cotto didn't want the CW at all he was coerced by Arum, he didn't even want to put the title on the line, he quickly left Arum and moved up a division.
Manny called Cotto out for his 154 title, Cotto said no problems but no CW, Manny said no fight he knew Cotto is not the same Cotto Cwed version he beat that's why he would not take it, same Cotto is it lol.

Oscar had no advantages he was a dead man walking the worst case of a dehydrated fighter in history, how did he have every advantage when he was so messed up, stop reading hype and look at what's real and what really happened, hindsight is 20/20 vision. I don't blame Manny for Oscars fck up, but it doesn't take the fck away, it happened.

Manny was never as good a boxer as Floyd its proven right through and signed off on by beating Manny head to head.

Stop living in denial and get some integrity, Manny lost to guys that could never beat Floyd in a million years, Manny lost 10% of his fights from early career to his last leaving the game a loser, he was never equal to Mayweather as boxers he was actually a class below him.

Dude it was never proven Margarito had plaster in his gloves give it up. Cotto lost bad to Margarito and Manny.
Floyd had ample opportunity to fight/beat undefeated Cotto after he beat Shane he said he was ready called Floyd out but Floyd was on that two year vacation.

I don't want to hear about Oscar's excuses. He really don't need any he was past his prime already. Manny gets credit for sending him to the retirement home. Something Floyd couldn't do.
When it comes to the best guys on his resume its not a given that Floyd beats them because he didn't want to fight those guys in their prime. He had every opportunity to but for him they were high risk low reward.
It's one of the main reasons why he doesn't get much credit despite being undefeated.

[Roadblock]

PAC fans can entertain idea that wasn't dlh at his best and if dlh was 100% he could have faired better.
But when nelo says against Floyd he was green and if that he had fought better fighters like cotton, Lara etc etc and gained experience and Floyd fought prime nelo, nelo would beat Floyd, there is no hint of acceptance from Floyd fans that the nelo win wasn't as good as they want it to be? Floyd fans don't accept nelo was drained and that Floyd wanted 150lb initially and told nelo to keep that quiet?

Its a fair argument only Floyds was the only one to beat Canelo and it wasn't close it was a complete schooling that Canelo never received before or since, other than Floyd, Canelo has run over everyone else, he actually showed with Lara why Floyd beat him, there is the asterisk there nodoubt, and by the same token there is a lot of Merit in the win, a 36 old former LW never been over 152 fight night, a much bigger Canelo 23 yr undefeated in 40+ fights, 22 KOs,10 WC bouts and current WC, it wasn't a power fight so that's where the weight doesn't matter unless your badly drained which he wasn't, because Canelos stamina was better than his other fights, if you are weight effected your stamina leaves town, he had snap on his punches, the reason why Floyd beat him was Canelos feet were never going to catch Floyds feet which meant Canelo was always a 1/2 step behind him, When Floyd boxes like that against planted fighters he is practically untouchable, he is just too nimble, he reads the play like very few in the history of boxing, Floyds no wrecking ball for casuals to get excited about, he is a chess master for the purists of boxing, to see all that Floyd does you have got to know boxing, any fool can see a KO, but they will never see a 1/2 step that's smothers a shot, how he dictates the positioning its ballet when you see the subltys, he does things that are amazing and precise, I followed boxing for over 5 decades, Im no fanboy I just know how good he really was.

Its like the win over JMM, they try and write it of because of the 2lb, JMM wasn't drained he was strong, he just come of stopping Juan Diaz he was stronger than ever before because he moved up not down that's a big deal. with Floyd, Juan was the same weight 150 he was KOing Manny, Floyd had been out for 2 yrs weighed in at 146 in a WW fight same as he did with Judah Hatton and few others his body was conditioned to be 146 and I think he realized late that he was not going to make it, now it was unprofessional that he didn't make 144 and he shouldn't have done it, could be a lot of reason why but Im telling you only a fool would think it was to cheat, to try and say that weight was the reason for the win is laughable, Floyd gave JMM a boxing lesson he never wanted another part off after it it was not a physical hard-punching shootout, it was an exhibition in the art of boxing, Floyd embarrassed Juan for real, JMM could not believe how outclassed he was, neither could Nacho and he said Mayweather is from another planet, that's real talk from real people,,,,, to beat such a beautiful boxer as JMM like that was sheer boxing poetry, is a great fight to watch an artist.

Self-denial all you want, you see the fights you know Im right and so do I, Floyd was the best of his era, and not by just a little bit but a far margin, I don't know if he could beat the Durans Leonards, Duran maaaaaaybe at 135, Leonard I think would be too big, but Floyd could compete and f he had of stayed at 135-140 who knows, Im sure he would have a lot more stoppages on his record,

This is not about anything other than can you as a person give credit for what was right before your eyes, its hard to do watching something you don't like beating you, it takes a real person to say well yeah it does look like he really was the best of his era, I don't wanna hear but but Manny is greater, he probably is it doesn't matter, it's irrelevant in this conversation of who was the better boxer.

[Roadblock]

Dude it was never proven Margarito had plaster in his gloves give it up. Cotto lost bad to Margarito and Manny.
Floyd had ample opportunity to fight/beat undefeated Cotto after he beat Shane he said he was ready called Floyd out but Floyd was on that two year vacation.

I don't want to hear about Oscar's excuses. He really don't need any he was past his prime already. Manny gets credit for sending him to the retirement home. Something Floyd couldn't do.
When it comes to the best guys on his resume its not a given that Floyd beats them because he didn't want to fight those guys in their prime. He had every opportunity to but for him they were high risk low reward.
It's one of the main reasons why he doesn't get much credit despite being undefeated.

lol man you are so fckd up, Oscar was totally messed up, do you even comprehend gaining 2lb over 30hrs needing IV fluids, to gain 2lb,.

Thats not an excuse, its is the reason why he was beaten so badly, 145 vs Manny coming of a terrible fight with a LW Steve Forbes that was at 150, and he didn't make that Roach talks about the weigh-in and foot bumping the scales, that's why Roach was saying a1/4 pound over and there will no fight, when Roach seen the IV marks he said it wont go three rounds, that's all documented

168 vs Floyd, coming of KO ing a MW, I would put money on this Oscar being too powerful over Manny in a shootout, if you cant see how much stronger he was you're blind.

Like I said its not an excuse its the reason he was beaten up he was a dead man walking. I get you don't wanna hear that, go tell the mirror.