How is Pacquiao a 4 weight class lineal champ?

[Steak]

I get what you're saying, but aren't these The Ring rankings? I'm bringing this up because even their champs aren't always the lineal champs, like Erdei.

well the controversy with Zsolt in the first place was that Darius Michazimberowskinoggin was supposed to be lineal champ BECAUSE Virgil Hill was in the top three and so was Darius...which by the Ring's own protocal state that the winner of the fight should be awared Champion status. they just didnt give it to him.

maybe Im just nitpicking, but ever since the multiple belts started coming along, everyone looks to Ring Magazine to keep a hold on whos the true champ in the division.

I mean, whose rankings are we looking at here that said that Sasakul became the lineal champ?

[Pullcounter]

first off, it doesnt matter, because even 'lineal' champions can be really decieving. for example, Zsolt Erdie should be the lineal champ. yea. which is a joke.
It matters who you beat and how you beat them more than anything else, and not just silly stats.

anyways so I hear this stat of his thrown around a lot...4 weight class 'lineal' champion. but hes not.
Hes the lineal champ at 140lbs when he beat Hatton
Hes the lineal champ at 130lbs when he beat Marquez, making a new lineal champ
Hes the lineal champ at Featherweight after beating Marco Antonio Barrera

and...thats it. so whats the deal?

crold already wrote an article about this. look it up.

[WhoreUs]

I dont understand. so people go by the ring's champion status for his other accolades, but we just assume that hes the lineal at Flyweight despite the fact that Yuri(and therefore Sasakul and Pacquiao) was not an undisputed champion?

sounds kind of ****** to me.

lineal champion doesn't just have to be ring's lineal champion.

here's the lineage at 112

Jimmy Wilde (1916-1923)
Pancho Villa [1923 - died of blood poisoning, July 14, 1925]
Fidel La Barba [1927 - vacates title 8/23,1927, to enter college]
1927 to 1937: Title claimants include Pinky Silverberg, Johnny McCoy, "Corporal" Izzy Schwartz; Albert "Frenchy" Belanger; Newsboy Brown; Frankie Genaro; Johnny Hill; Emile "Spider" Pladner; Willie LaMorte; Midget Wolgast; Victor "Young" Perez; Jackie Brown; and Small Montana. Benny Lynch stopped Jackie Brown in 1935 for general recognition and, in 1937, outpointed Small Montana for universal recognition
Benny Lynch [1937 - forfeits title 6/29/1938]
Peter Kane (1938-1939, vacates title)
Jackie Paterson (1943-1948)
Rinty Monaghan [1948-1950, retires 4/25]
Terry Allen (1950)
Salvador "Dado" Marino (1950-1952)
Yoshio Shirai (1952-1954)
Pascual Perez(1954-1960)
Pone Kingpetch (1960-1962)
Masahiko "Fighting" Harada (1962-1963)
Pone Kingpetch (1963)
Hiroyuki Ebihara (1963-1964)
Pone Kingpetch (1964-1965)
Salvadore Burruni (1965-1966)
Walter McGowan (1966)
Chartchai Chionoi (1966-1969)
Efren Torres (1969-1970)
Chartchai Chionoi (1970)
Erbito Salavarria (1970-1973)
Venice Borkorsor [1973, relinquishes title]
Miguel Canto S. (1975 -1979)
Chan-Hee Park (1979-1980)
Shoji Oguma (1980-1981)
Antonio Avelar (1981-1982)
Prudencio Cardona (1982)
Freddy Castillo (1982)
Eleoncio Mercedes(1982-1983)
Charlie Magri (1983)
Frank Cedeno (1983-1984)
Koji Kobayashi (1984)
Gabriel Bernal (1984)
Sot Chitalada (1984-1988)
Yong Kang Kim (1988-1989)
Sot Chitalada (1989-1991)
Maungchai Kittikasem (1991-1992)
Yuri Arbachakov (1992-1997)
Chatchai Sasakul (1997-1998)
Manny Pacquiao (1998-1999)
Medgoen 3K-Battery (1999-2000)
Malcolm Tunacao (2000-2001)
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam (2001-2008)
Daisuke Naito (2008 to date)

[Shadows]

well the controversy with Zsolt in the first place was that Darius Michazimberowskinoggin was supposed to be lineal champ BECAUSE Virgil Hill was in the top three and so was Darius...which by the Ring's own protocal state that the winner of the fight should be awared Champion status. they just didnt give it to him.

maybe Im just nitpicking, but ever since the multiple belts started coming along, everyone looks to Ring Magazine to keep a hold on whos the true champ in the division.

I mean, whose rankings are we looking at here that said that Sasakul became the lineal champ?

You know as much as me, lol.

I guess The Ring champ is the closest thing we have, but even theirs is not perfect--i.e. no mandatory defenses.

In the grand scheme of things, today, titles have become less important and I look at who a guy's fought, rather than if a lineal/IBF/WBC title is on the line. Though, it'd be nice to have one world title.

[Steak]

Were you looking at The Ring rankings? The Ring actually defaulted on issuing The Ring title for at least a decade, and the lineage of champions still existed. Secondly, one cannot be ranked as no.1 contender by the Ring if you are the champ. Rankings are only for challengers.

even if the lineal championship was still in effect, I dont understand why Sasakul would have been the champ in the first place.

he was unranked when he beat Yuri Arbachakov at the end of 1996

1. Mark Johnson
2. Yuri Arbachakov
3. Jose Bonilla
4. Carlos Salazar
5. Saen Sor Ploenchit
6. Chatchai Elite-Gym
7. Alejandro Felix Montiel
8. Arthur Johnson
9. Alberto Jimenez
10. Jesper David Jensen

and at best I think we can agree that he was not in the top 3 before beating Yuri, because he didnt beat a single top ten fighter until he beat Yuri.

after beating Yuri, lets say he was jumped up to the #1 spot. he still wouldnt be crowned champion, because he was not the number 2 or 3 before fighting him, and thats generally the criteria needed to crown a new champion.

He would have had to beat Mark Johnson to become the lineal champ, or at least someone in the top 3. but he didnt beat any top ten ranked fighter after beating Yuri.

so why is he considered the lineal champ here?

[WhoreUs]

even if the lineal championship was still in effect, I dont understand why Sasakul would have been the champ in the first place.

he was unranked when he beat Yuri Arbachakov at the end of 1996

1. Mark Johnson
2. Yuri Arbachakov
3. Jose Bonilla
4. Carlos Salazar
5. Saen Sor Ploenchit
6. Chatchai Elite-Gym
7. Alejandro Felix Montiel
8. Arthur Johnson
9. Alberto Jimenez
10. Jesper David Jensen

and at best I think we can agree that he was not in the top 3 before beating Yuri, because he didnt beat a single top ten fighter until he beat Yuri.

after beating Yuri, lets say he was jumped up to the #1 spot. he still wouldnt be crowned champion, because he was not the number 2 or 3 before fighting him, and thats generally the criteria needed to crown a new champion.

He would have had to beat Mark Johnson to become the lineal champ, or at least someone in the top 3. but he didnt beat any top ten ranked fighter after beating Yuri.

so why is he considered the lineal champ here?

you don't have to be ranked to gain a lineal belt.

that's ring magazine's rule and it only applies when the title is vacant. to crown ring champions you have to unify all 3 belts (before not anymore) or #1 beats #2 or sometimes #3.

yuri abchakov was already considered a lineal champion by most boxing writers outside of ring magazine.

when sasakul beat him he was considered lineal champ and when pacquiao beat him he was considered lineal champ.

[Steak]

lineal champion doesn't just have to be ring's lineal champion.

here's the lineage at 112

Jimmy Wilde (1916-1923)
Pancho Villa [1923 - died of blood poisoning, July 14, 1925]
Fidel La Barba [1927 - vacates title 8/23,1927, to enter college]
1927 to 1937: Title claimants include Pinky Silverberg, Johnny McCoy, "Corporal" Izzy Schwartz; Albert "Frenchy" Belanger; Newsboy Brown; Frankie Genaro; Johnny Hill; Emile "Spider" Pladner; Willie LaMorte; Midget Wolgast; Victor "Young" Perez; Jackie Brown; and Small Montana. Benny Lynch stopped Jackie Brown in 1935 for general recognition and, in 1937, outpointed Small Montana for universal recognition
Benny Lynch [1937 - forfeits title 6/29/1938]
Peter Kane (1938-1939, vacates title)
Jackie Paterson (1943-1948)
Rinty Monaghan [1948-1950, retires 4/25]
Terry Allen (1950)
Salvador "Dado" Marino (1950-1952)
Yoshio Shirai (1952-1954)
Pascual Perez(1954-1960)
Pone Kingpetch (1960-1962)
Masahiko "Fighting" Harada (1962-1963)
Pone Kingpetch (1963)
Hiroyuki Ebihara (1963-1964)
Pone Kingpetch (1964-1965)
Salvadore Burruni (1965-1966)
Walter McGowan (1966)
Chartchai Chionoi (1966-1969)
Efren Torres (1969-1970)
Chartchai Chionoi (1970)
Erbito Salavarria (1970-1973)
Venice Borkorsor [1973, relinquishes title]
Miguel Canto S. (1975 -1979)
Chan-Hee Park (1979-1980)
Shoji Oguma (1980-1981)
Antonio Avelar (1981-1982)
Prudencio Cardona (1982)
Freddy Castillo (1982)
Eleoncio Mercedes(1982-1983)
Charlie Magri (1983)
Frank Cedeno (1983-1984)
Koji Kobayashi (1984)
Gabriel Bernal (1984)
Sot Chitalada (1984-1988)
Yong Kang Kim (1988-1989)
Sot Chitalada (1989-1991)
Maungchai Kittikasem (1991-1992)
Yuri Arbachakov (1992-1997)
Chatchai Sasakul (1997-1998)
Manny Pacquiao (1998-1999)
Medgoen 3K-Battery (1999-2000)
Malcolm Tunacao (2000-2001)
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam (2001-2008)
Daisuke Naito (2008 to date)

those aint lineal champions, those are pretty much the WBC champions.

is the WBC considered lineal magically?

and who decided this lineal championship?

[ThunderWolf]

those aint lineal champions, those are pretty much the WBC champions until 2005.

is the WBC considered lineal magically?

and who decided this lineal championship?

Yes I think you just have to clarify on your lack of knowledge about your thread. So many threads and articles have been made already about this, and it is common knowledge and officially agreed that Pac was lineal champ at flyweight. That`s why the more knowledgeable ones don`t even care to reply.

[WhoreUs]

those aint lineal champions, those are pretty much the WBC champions until 2005.

is the WBC considered lineal magically?

and who decided this lineal championship?

listen , dumb****.

lineal titles are passed on from beating the previous lineal champion.

the problem arises when a title becomes vacant.

when that happens boxing writers/historians decide which fight is meaningful enough to declare that person the new lineal champion.

where the ring writers and the other boxing writers split off is when ring decided to give their lineal titles for those who unify all 3 belts. the other writers felt it should be just for what was the universally recognized as #1 and #2 in the division.

now go away with this ****** ****.

most boxing writers consider pac the lineal champ at 112. good enough for me.

[Steak]

Yes I think you just have to clarify on your lack of knowledge about your thread. So many threads and articles have been made already about this, and it is common knowledge and officially agreed that Pac was lineal champ at flyweight.

dont be such a ****ing dumbass, this is boxing talk, dont bother saying anything if youre not going to add to it.


anyways it took a while but finally I found you can trace it all the way back to Miguel Canto, who first became the new lineal champ after it being empty. so even though it came a long way with a lot of mess inbetween, somehow it did go in order to making Pacquiao somewhat lineal at the weight.

its kind of iffy but Ill take it, no one has ever really bothered to look into why Pacquiao is considered lineal at the weight and Im glad I looked into it.