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Why do people overrate 'defensive' boxers today?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by denium View Post
    It depends how the defense is.

    I love watching boxers slip and sliding, whereas I hate watching boxers who hold all the time.

    The Andrade fight this weekend was a good example, everyone says that he's a defensive wizard, but I just saw a guy holding all the time.

    ​​​​​​
    Yeah he is more awkward, than slick anyway

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Boxing-1013 View Post

      And that is kind of my point - if we were watching two guys fight on the street, and neither one landed - how would we call that fight? We would say 'Draw, neither guy did sh.it'

      It should be the same for any other type of fight we see, in the boxing ring as well obviously. When you start to ACTIVELY score anything else other than the punches that land, then you get into a real dangerous spot, where now you can try and rationalize a guy winning any round, and rounds they have no business winning.

      And that gives way to terrible scorecards from judges being accepted as well. I could say 'well this guy was effective with his aggression, he didn't let the other guy land or even hardly throw a punch in that round, he won.' You could say 'no this guy won, he avoided more punches and showed better defense' Meanwhile neither guy landed a punch.
      Yes, it can get tricky but look at it this way. If there were two defensive fighters neither doing much except making sure that they did not get hit what sort of fight would that be? Is that the sort of fight that people would pay to see? Which is why I lean towards rewarding aggression even if it does not result in much but is genuine. Boxers are in the ring to fight each other and try to get a decisive win but sometimes that is not possible, particularly when one is a spoiler. In that situation should the other boxer who is trying to make a fight of it not be rewarded for his (crowd pleasing) efforts?

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      • #63
        - -Started with TBE TUE 51-0 late notice TBA fights in the latter half of his career in his hometown with his selection of officials. Make Sven Ottke look like a wannabee...
        Boxing-1013 likes this.

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        • #64
          Being defensive as you got a glass chin is ok and you've just taking a great shot and trying to survive to hear bell to end the round. But I think you should lose rounds overly defensive.
          Boxing-1013 likes this.

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          • #65
            Some people don't know what a good defense is, they think 'Standing 10 meters away from a opponent is a good defense'.

            Mike Tyson at his peak had a great defense, fighters who can fight on the inside 'Deflect, block, evade and ride punches' have a great defense.

            Very few fighters in my opinion show this kind of defense to a very high level.

            Evander Holyfield is another fighter who had a tested defense.

            Boxing-1013 likes this.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by PRINCEKOOL View Post
              Some people don't know what a good defense is, they think 'Standing 10 meters away from a opponent is a good defense'.

              Mike Tyson at his peak had a great defense, fighters who can fight on the inside 'Deflect, block, evade and ride punches' have a great defense.

              Very few fighters in my opinion show this kind of defense to a very high level.

              Evander Holyfield is another fighter who had a tested defense.
              Tyson used his defence to hit you hard. Floyd used his defence to survive to hear final bell. Tyson should win round, Floyd should lose rounds, because Floyd approached round like he's taken a great shot and used defence to survive rounf

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              • #67
                Originally posted by hugh grant View Post

                Tyson used his defence to hit you hard. Floyd used his defence to survive to hear final bell. Tyson should win round, Floyd should lose rounds, because Floyd approached round like he's taken a great shot and used defence to survive rounf
                Mayweather had a great defense, he could AVOID you or he could engage and still use his defense 'There are not many fighters active today with a multi-dimensional defense like that'.

                Some fighters give it a go, such as Tyson Fury 'But really I think Fury is extremely clumsy on the inside'.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by PRINCEKOOL View Post
                  Some people don't know what a good defense is, they think 'Standing 10 meters away from a opponent is a good defense'.

                  Mike Tyson at his peak had a great defense, fighters who can fight on the inside 'Deflect, block, evade and ride punches' have a great defense.

                  Very few fighters in my opinion show this kind of defense to a very high level.

                  Evander Holyfield is another fighter who had a tested defense.
                  Most people don't know anything about defense. Same people who would have claimed in 2012 that Broner was the next Mayweather.

                  The same people who say Fury is "stupid" for putting his hands behind his back despite being 10ft away from his opponent, or using it to draw shots from incompetent opponents.

                  Defence is about positioning which always starts with the feet. The only exception is when you take the ropes and decides to roll, slip, duck and slide...but against someone decent they will pin, roughhouse and find openings if you want to hold your feet here. This is when someone like Floyd or Fury for example will engage the clinch & reset.

                  If anyone thinks Tyson Fury is clumsy on the inside they've never watched him fight, he's one of the most competent inside fighters today. People just confuse his mauling, roughhousing & clinching as messy when it's merely just a great fight tactic especially against a hurt tired opponent. Add the fact he is always taller than his opponent and isn't a great tight offensive fighter he excels in an area he shouldn't.
                  Last edited by miniq; 05-01-2021, 06:24 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by miniq View Post

                    Most people don't know anything about defense. Same people who would have claimed in 2012 that Broner was the next Mayweather.

                    The same people who say Fury is "stupid" for putting his hands behind his back despite being 10ft away from his opponent, or using it to draw shots from incompetent opponents.

                    Defence is about positioning which always starts with the feet. The only exception is when you take the ropes and decides to roll, slip, duck and slide...but against someone decent they will pin, roughhouse and find openings if you want to hold your feet here. This is when someone like Floyd or Fury for example will engage the clinch & reset.

                    If anyone thinks Tyson Fury is clumsy on the inside they've never watched him fight, he's one of the most competent inside fighters today. People just confuse his mauling, roughhousing & clinching as messy when it's merely just a great fight tactic especially against a hurt tired opponent. Add the fact he is always taller than his opponent and isn't a great tight offensive fighter he excels in an area he shouldn't.
                    You have not watched Tyson Fury's entire career from the start 'I witnessed it as it happened'.

                    Be honest with yourself? You have only jumped on Fury's bang wagon I would say 'The past 2-3 years or so'.

                    You are not fooling me, if he gets beat 'You will pipe down regarding his abilities'.

                    Anybody that has watched Tyson Fury's career, and who is honest with themselves 'The descriptive word clumsy is never far from their mouth'.

                    Tyson Fury is a clumsy fighter, and the fact of the matter is? He has been there to be hit in all of his fights since Wilder I.

                    Deontay Wilder I
                    was the last time Tyson Fury implemented his old riddler style 'Which was a bi-product of Peter Fury's training'.

                    Tyson Fury is clumsy on the inside, he has a tendency to square up 'But even still he has a better defense than Anthony Joshua'.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by PRINCEKOOL View Post

                      You have not watched Tyson Fury's entire career from the start 'I witnessed it as it happened'.

                      Be honest with yourself? You have only jumped on Fury's bang wagon I would say 'The past 2-3 years or so'.

                      You are not fooling me, if he gets beat 'You will pipe down regarding his abilities'.

                      Anybody that has watched Tyson Fury's career, and who is honest with themselves 'The descriptive word clumsy is never far from their mouth'.

                      Tyson Fury is a clumsy fighter, and the fact of the matter is? He has been there to be hit in all of his fights since Wilder I.

                      Deontay Wilder I
                      was the last time Tyson Fury implemented his old riddler style 'Which was a bi-product of Peter Fury's training'.

                      Tyson Fury is clumsy on the inside, he has a tendency to square up 'But even still he has a better defense than Anthony Joshua'.

                      I have watched all of Fury's career from the start so get out of here with that BS.

                      Fury doesn't create space on the inside (unless his opponent is stuck on the ropes in a guard), he clinches, so that naturally squares you up, as I said, he likes to hold & maul. Why would he give space to someone like AJ who can throw tight powerful punches when he can close right up and put his weight on him? Difference is Fury controls the clinch better than anyone, he positions his head and body better and he controls the opponents and re-positions out of the break to leave his opponents vulnerable.

                      True toe to toe inside fights are rare, they require reciprocation from the opponent, if you're not throwing & landing then your opponent is throwing and landing. Fury realized quickly in his early days entering these kind of brawls even with size and toughness was a fools game.
                      Last edited by miniq; 05-01-2021, 07:02 AM.

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