Originally posted by Sid-Knee
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Ellis was an example of guys who had a lot of skills, Jones was another one from the era, Zora Foiley another... No not great but excellent fighters.
You have some strong opinions. I would say that strong opinions need strong proof. Foreman and Frazier are considered great fighters based on watching and analying their body of work. I would implore you to watch someone you have not mentioned: Forget any forgone conclusions here and watch Sonny Liston. Watch how he sets his shots up, his footwork, his skill in finishing an opponent. Watch all the things his opponents do, how they are able to fight at all ranges, etc. Just watch all the things that are done in the ring. I actually prefer Liston, who mentored Foreman, to Foreman... He may be someone you can look at more objectively since you seem resolute about Foreman and Frazier.
Regarding Ali's prime? Thats physiology. It is what it is, one can accept it, or challenge it by saying things like "a heavyweight can hold prime longer", "If a guy took less punishment he would hold his faculties" but fighters who fought punishing battles back in the day never seemed to lose their ability so much... But it is not an assertion that can be proved, or disproved. Fury could be past his best... what do we have to compare him to, to know either way?
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