Boxing For the Under Privileged Masses, MMA for Socio-Economic Elite Minority

[JoeKickAss]

I also find that MMA'ers tend to overvalue a fighters capabilities moreso than any other combat sport.

Just look at Anderson Silva. This guy was getting tagged with huge shots, looked lost on the inside and against the ropes when he sparred a 3-3-2 journeyman fighter in boxing at wild card gym.

And Silva in MMA is absolutely untouchable. Griffin who held a belt as early as last year couldnt even land a punch.

Silva, at best is an average boxer. Whats that say about the rest of MMA?

Another issue. BLACK BELTS. How many times do we hear "this person has a black belt?" You hear it a ton. The bottom line is there are thousands of blackbelts in the world. And very few of them actually deserve it and many of them are fighting at a high level in MMA. Many of them were given out to fighters as a way to legitimize their gym and at the same time legitimizing the fighter. But really, does Wand or Anderson and many others actually deserve a black belt? Thats nonsense. Silva got mounted by Lutter and dropped the 1st round against Henderson. Sure he submitted both but both times those submissions were a result of strikes not his superior striking ability.

lol wut???

[We want Floyd]

MMA is for Socio-Economic Elite Minority, get f**k out with that bull****.

Go to any country club and ask them if they know who Chuck Lidell is?

Then ask 'em who Mike Tyson is? Anyway.

You pointed out that MMAers have college degrees or a good number do.

I doubt it. I think what you'd find alot of are guys who had some college. Alot of those "jocks" went to college and alot did not graduate!

And no, those MMA fighters don't pay more for their gym membership compared to a boxer. See, this is where your bull****, and misinformation starts to show.

a) There's a universal understanding between trainer and fighter(whether i'd be an MMA or boxer)

If a fighter is serious about fighting, then he either gets 100% free training or pays a very small amount for his gym fees.

b) the trainer gets a small cut of the fighter's winning, I'm talkin' local or state tourneys.

In return, the gym gets recognition and prestige .

Now, if someone just wanted to join an MMA gym , well, it's more expensive to join compared to a boxing only gym. Duh, because an MMA gym "offers more" they have boxing/kickboxing/bjj/and some even offer wrestling classes.

- Gleason's gym in NYC is every bit as expensive as any of the "high-priced MMA gyms such as XTreme Couture, etc.. It just depends on the location. How long the gym has been around.

I don't even think you can even compare anymore, even those boxing gyms in the blue-collar parts of cities don't exist anymore. Boxing only gyms are near extinction. The interest in boxing has waned.

[TheNegation]

You dont have to MASTER ANY SKILLS IN MMA. In boxing, you DO. How is boxing an incomplete skill? That literally makes no sense.

Boxing is an incomplete art and in fact is possibly the most incomplete combat art in existence.

You can't master any skills in MMA because if you do you'll either be KTFO because or get out grappled and wrestled. It's a diverse sport. You have to be good at everything or you won't make it.

He was training from what I understand 2 years, but thats beside the point. The point is, Lesnar is not a skilled fighter, hes an athletic one. He was never a technical wrestler, he relied on his physical attributes to win matches in wrestling not his technical ability.

That doesn't mean he is any less of a fighter because his athletic ability compensates for his lack of superior skill.

Lesnar walked into MMA and beat guys, smashed guys that have been training in this sport for nearly a decade if not longer.

So all of a sudden because of one fighter, it makes the whole sport lose credibility.

Nikolai Valuev anyone. An absolute freakshow, I don't see anybody talking about him...

People talk about having to be well-rounded in MMA to succeed but thats just a huge load of BS. Wrestling is the only thing Lesnar is good at. Its the only thing Guida, Sherk and many other MMAers are good at, just like Maia is in BJJ as is Aoki, Monson etc. And they are all VERY good in MMA.

because MMA caters to wrestlers because that's the only avenue for competition a wrestler or grappler has besides ADCC or the Olympics. You do have to be well rounded, don't act like you don't because if you didn't Anderson Silva would have lost the belt a long time ago and Georges St. Pierre's wrestling wouldn't be anywhere near as effective if he didn't have good striking to set it up and Fedor wouldn't be Fedor. Don't be dumb.

Wrestling is supposed to be a COMPONENT of MMA. Lesnar is dominating people with ONE COMPONENT.

I though Lesnar was a mediocore wrestler and a just beating guys with size. Make up your damn mind.

I made it clear already. Wrestling is the best base for MMA, period.

Assuerio Silva and Tim Hague are actually pretty good fighters and Duffee at the age of 23-24 with a crappy background beat both those guys.

They aren't great fighters. You already don't like MMA clearly, so I expect ignorance.

The fact that I say boxing is more difficult is supported with a ton of FACTS. Thats the bottom line.

And I dont see how being good at one thing, decent at another is more difficult than being AMAZING at one thing.

Of course you don't know because you've never ventured into it. Blending everything together isn't as easy as it seems.

In boxing you have one thing worry about, being punched. There are guys in MMA that have incredible Jiu Jitsu but if you don't have decent hands set up takedowns, to get it to where you are strong you lose. Just look at what happened to Damien Maia last night.

MMA is the easier sport to succeed in.

I'm willing to bet the training for MMA is just as if not more strenuous than boxing. How is waking up doing roadwork, going to the gym training striking, grappling, wrestling on top of strength and conditioning, more strenuous than doing roadwork, skipping, hitting the bag, hitting pads and sparring?

I also find that MMA'ers tend to overvalue a fighters capabilities moreso than any other combat sport.

Just look at Anderson Silva. This guy was getting tagged with huge shots, looked lost on the inside and against the ropes when he sparred a 3-3-2 journeyman fighter in boxing at wild card gym.

Anderson Silva is not a boxer. Striking pertaining to boxing and striking pertaining to Muay Thai and MMA are two totally different ball parks.

And Silva in MMA is absolutely untouchable. Griffin who held a belt as early as last year couldnt even land a punch.

Anyone with a brain knew Forrest wasn't going to last. Forrest is brawler, Anderson is a technically proficient striker. Styles make fights.

Silva, at best is an average boxer. Whats that say about the rest of MMA?

Like I said you boxing elitists fail to realize boxing in MMA is not a useful as boxing in a pure boxing bout. I guarantee you Mayweather would look like an at best average striker in a K-1 or MMA bout. That's just how it is.

Another issue. BLACK BELTS. How many times do we hear "this person has a black belt?" You hear it a ton. The bottom line is there are thousands of blackbelts in the world. And very few of them actually deserve it and many of them are fighting at a high level in MMA. Many of them were given out to fighters as a way to legitimize their gym and at the same time legitimizing the fighter. But really, does Wand or Anderson and many others actually deserve a black belt? Thats nonsense. Silva got mounted by Lutter and dropped the 1st round against Henderson. Sure he submitted both but both times those submissions were a result of strikes not his superior striking ability.

Belts are irrelevant unless the said black belt in competing in a competition that solely involves their art.

Black Belts go out the window in MMA. You could be a Red Belt with ****ing stars and polka dots on it in Karate but if you get put on your back, it becomes irrelevant

[pesticid]

MMA's problem is that it's not a sport, it's fighting with no particular discipline. You will never see amateur MMA. It doesn't have the infrastructure of other sports in terms of amateur competition.

[TheNegation]

MMA's problem is that it's not a sport, it's fighting with no particular discipline. You will never see amateur MMA. It doesn't have the infrastructure of other sports in terms of amateur competition.

Let's define sport-

"an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature"

If golf is a sport, MMA is a sport. It's being covered on ESPN, it's a sport.

And you are ******ed because there IS amateur MMA competition.

The only place it won't reach is the Olympics.

[pugilistfan]

lol wut???

Strikes ultimately led to his submissions. Against Lutter, Silva secured an average submission attempt and couldnt fully lock it in. Lutter tapped primarily because Silva was landing elbows to his head.

Against Henderson, he wobbled him with strikes and then promptly applied a RNC.

[pugilistfan]

Boxing is an incomplete art and in fact is possibly the most incomplete combat art in existence.

You can't master any skills in MMA because if you do you'll either be KTFO because or get out grappled and wrestled. It's a diverse sport. You have to be good at everything or you won't make it.



That doesn't mean he is any less of a fighter because his athletic ability compensates for his lack of superior skill.




So all of a sudden because of one fighter, it makes the whole sport lose credibility.

Nikolai Valuev anyone. An absolute freakshow, I don't see anybody talking about him...



because MMA caters to wrestlers because that's the only avenue for competition a wrestler or grappler has besides ADCC or the Olympics. You do have to be well rounded, don't act like you don't because if you didn't Anderson Silva would have lost the belt a long time ago and Georges St. Pierre's wrestling wouldn't be anywhere near as effective if he didn't have good striking to set it up and Fedor wouldn't be Fedor. Don't be dumb.



I though Lesnar was a mediocore wrestler and a just beating guys with size. Make up your damn mind.

I made it clear already. Wrestling is the best base for MMA, period.



They aren't great fighters. You already don't like MMA clearly, so I expect ignorance.



Of course you don't know because you've never ventured into it. Blending everything together isn't as easy as it seems.

In boxing you have one thing worry about, being punched. There are guys in MMA that have incredible Jiu Jitsu but if you don't have decent hands set up takedowns, to get it to where you are strong you lose. Just look at what happened to Damien Maia last night.



I'm willing to bet the training for MMA is just as if not more strenuous than boxing. How is waking up doing roadwork, going to the gym training striking, grappling, wrestling on top of strength and conditioning, more strenuous than doing roadwork, skipping, hitting the bag, hitting pads and sparring?



Anderson Silva is not a boxer. Striking pertaining to boxing and striking pertaining to Muay Thai and MMA are two totally different ball parks.




Anyone with a brain knew Forrest wasn't going to last. Forrest is brawler, Anderson is a technically proficient striker. Styles make fights.



Like I said you boxing elitists fail to realize boxing in MMA is not a useful as boxing in a pure boxing bout. I guarantee you Mayweather would look like an at best average striker in a K-1 or MMA bout. That's just how it is.

Belts are irrelevant unless the said black belt in competing in a competition that solely involves their art.

Black Belts go out the window in MMA. You could be a Red Belt with ****ing stars and polka dots on it in Karate but if you get put on your back, it becomes irrelevant

Jesus christ. That is absolutely ABSURD. Quite possibly the dumbest thing i've read in a long time. Miguel Torres just got knocked out by Brian Bowles and many, including professional MMA'ers said Torres was a GREAT striker. And yet this guy just got starched by Brian freaking Bowles. Bottom line is MMA'ers have never, NEVER seen what an elite striker could do to them.

There is nothing revolutionary about MMA striking, its TERRIBLE. An elite boxer would absolutely SMASH an MMA'er on their feet. It wouldnt even be competitive. You really think those ****ty kicks we see in MMA would actually frustrate a boxer? They would just laugh and proceed to knock the guys head off.

You have a legitimate argument with some of the best Thai fighters in the world primarily the lighter weight classes. Those guys are animals and they kick like mules.

But MMA'ers arent Thai fighters. Far from it.

"Like I said you boxing elitists fail to realize boxing in MMA is not a useful as boxing in a pure boxing bout"

Okay, that makes no sense.

And in regards to belts, for the most part they are useless. But grossly fabricating fighters accomplishments is dishonest and pathetic. And thats what many MMA'ers do. And, if you win legitimate submission grappling competitions, olympic golds they are definitely beneficial and i'd bet that those fighters would wreck through MMA in no time. We've already seen it.

Valuev couldnt beat a 50 year old Evander Holyfield. Hes awful. And despite that Valuev at least has an amateur background and amassed plenty of wins to get to the point hes at now.

The fact that in MMA you have more tools is exactly why its easier. In boxing, its like a chess match. Finding and setting up openings, baiting your opponents.

Its the same thing in grappling competitions. Ever watch them? Very aggressive, advancing position, lots of risks, fast paced. You rarely, RARELY see that in MMA. For the most part, there are 3-4 common submissions with fighters rarely trying to advance position, not taking risks etc. Primarily because of strikes. Look at GSP, this guy has had top position, advances position but the guy NEVER, rarely attempts submissions even when hes got his opponent in like half mount for christs sake. WHY? Because he doesnt want to give up position and end up on his back.

Jesus Christ, do you know how many one-dimensional MMA'ers there are at the top, TOP of the sport. Aoki, Sherk, Lesnar, Kongo, Babalu, Maia, Palhares, Jacare, Filho, Sonnen, Guida.

My god there are DOZENS MORE. The bottom line is if you master a sport you have a HUGE ADVANTAGE. You dont have to be well-rounded in MMA. And the amount of fighters who are truly well-rounded in MMA are slim. Okay, dont be ******. GSP wins BECAUSE of wrestling and his athleticism not because hes able to blend his strikes into his takedowns. Thats just absurd. At times, he didnt have to set up his takedown against Alves, he just shot right in. Sure hes a solid striker but without his dominant takedowns, he likely would have lost the title a long time ago. And I listed all those one-dimensional fighters, if you watch MMA you would know who all of them are.

Maia didnt lose that fight because he was one-dimensional. He lost that fight because he fought like a f'kin idiot. Do you know how easy it is to set up a takedown? You dont have to be a good striker to set up a takedown.

I'm willing to bet the training for MMA is just as if not more strenuous than boxing. How is waking up doing roadwork, going to the gym training striking, grappling, wrestling on top of strength and conditioning, more strenuous than doing roadwork, skipping, hitting the bag, hitting pads and sparring?

The time an MMA'er is doing grappling, a boxer is working on boxing. And boxers do strength and conditioning, go far MORE rounds of sparring and train with the BEST at their respective sport. In terms of striking, MMA'ers are striking with guys from their respective gym who wouldnt hang with a low-level striker in MT or boxing. Most MMA practitioners operate at a high skill level in grappling but certainly not in striking...and it shows.

Both sports are obviously difficult conditioning wise but i'm quite confident that going 12 rouns of championship boxing is arguably the toughest thing to do in all of sports.

[Drunken Cat]

MMA's problem is that it's not a sport, it's fighting with no particular discipline. You will never see amateur MMA. It doesn't have the infrastructure of other sports in terms of amateur competition.

No surprise, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I attended an amateur MMA show last month.

[Drunken Cat]

I'm willing to bet the training for MMA is just as if not more strenuous than boxing. How is waking up doing roadwork, going to the gym training striking, grappling, wrestling on top of strength and conditioning, more strenuous than doing roadwork, skipping, hitting the bag, hitting pads and sparring?

The time an MMA'er is doing grappling, a boxer is working on boxing. And boxers do strength and conditioning, go far MORE rounds of sparring and train with the BEST at their respective sport. In terms of striking, MMA'ers are striking with guys from their respective gym who wouldnt hang with a low-level striker in MT or boxing. Most MMA practitioners operate at a high skill level in grappling but certainly not in striking...and it shows.

Both sports are obviously difficult conditioning wise but i'm quite confident that going 12 rouns of championship boxing is arguably the toughest thing to do in all of sports.

Ever wrestled? Grappled? Of course you haven't. How the fuck would you know how strenuous it is?

As for your declaration that most MMA fighters primarily concentrate on grappling, this just serves to further highlight your ignorance. Besides, how the fuck would you know? Pulling stuff out of your ass, I see.

[old cat]

I hate this argument. It's like saying:

Basketball = good
Basketball + tackling = better

This made me Laugh --------Crap LOL LOL sums it up perfectly...