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Calzaghe. Toney lost too many times to fighters perhaps he was better than and got many questionable decisions. I think people like to judge Toney on how great he could have been, not what he did and his performances. Maybe he would have beat Calzaghe but he showed many times at the top level he couldnt always be counted on.
Comparing what Calzaghe could to at heavyweight is ******. he is a super middleweight and his style would never allow him to be as fat as Toney and be competitive.Comment
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Who cares if people think!! Joe was better, Toney has proven he is the best fighter by defeating better opposition. End of thread.Comment
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JoooooooooooooooE Calzaaaaaaaaaaaaaghe!Comment
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by that logic hasim rahman is better than muhammad ali.
also lol at the punching power thing. u are joking right? i mean calzaghe has some of the most ignorant fans out there. probably only topped by klit and pac fans but this is just crazy.
as for the original question toney is far superior to joe calzaghe and anyone who cant see it u dont know their boxing.Comment
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dont worry he was being sarcastic. Daggum hates calzagheby that logic hasim rahman is better than muhammad ali.
also lol at the punching power thing. u are joking right? i mean calzaghe has some of the most ignorant fans out there. probably only topped by klit and pac fans but this is just crazy.
as for the original question toney is far superior to joe calzaghe and anyone who cant see it u dont know their boxing.Comment
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aight cool. on the sarcasm thing that is. i dont really like ppl hating on any fighter. although its kinda hard not disliking someone like calzaghe who has hurt the sport so badly and seem like such an ******* in person.
as for the toney-calzaghe thing..
toney won his first title by going to a 36-0 michael nunns backyard and knocking him out for the title. toney is the only fighter to ever knock out nunn. nunn at the time held wins over frank tate, roldan, kalambay, donald curry, barkley and starling. only two of them went the distance.
nunn was better than calzaghe. toney is on a whole other level than calzaghe. the nunn fight alone he proved more than calzaghe has his entire career.Comment
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James Toney > Joe Calzaghe imo.Comment
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im a big fan of both fighters and i think im pretty impartial here, first of all daggum can i say that you're in the wrong when saying calzaghe has the bigger punch. toney competes at HW and faces guys who regularly weigh 220+ and manages to earn their respect with his pop.
PRIME vs PRIME; anyways if you're arguing who wins a prime for prime match up at say 168 then its a pretty close call. iv always thought prime toney had the style to beat prime joe and would have more success against him than others like hopkins, RJJ, tarver etc. but joe is pretty smart himself and he can mix up his approach.
- im gonna say calzaghe takes the prime vs prime match up. but arguments can be made for it the other way.
RESUME; i think when you're considering the resume you have to account for losses as well, its not just who you share a ring with but who you beat and also who beats you. calzaghe dominated his division for a decade and the only notable fighter he didn't fight was ottke but i give him a pass on that (i.e. in the same way RJJ is given a pass for darius michaelczweski), his best wins are over prime robin reid, kessler, eubank and hopkins. he also faced many (thanks to ottke former) titlists such as reid, lacy, sheika, mitchell etc.
toney's resume has several good wins at the lower weights and beat a steady stream of good competition but its his wins north of his weightclass that deserve credit. toney has no real buisness competing with guys like rahman, ruiz, holyfield, peter or even jirov but he does and imo fighting, competing and having success above your natural weight is the mark of an ATG fighter. toneys indiscipline and losses to griffin do take the shine off his resume though especially the schooling he got at the hands of RJJ.
the resume's are too close to call - DRAW
INTANGIBLES - calzaghe is a better fighter than he is sometimes given credit for. he has a relentless attack, forces his will on the opponent and fights a way to overcome. its his ability to overcome his own brittles hands and develop a style that still lead to success that makes him special imo. how many fighters can you mention off the top of your head rely on their speed and workrate as they get older? normally they rely on their smarts, their punch and their experience.
toney has a great style and was made for the boxing ring. when he says he was born to fight hes not kidding, and i think even f.roach singled him out as the most talented fighter. his ring smarts and boxing IQ is one par with anyone else, imo his ring smarts have got to be in the top 5 of all time. watching toney vs jirov or holyfield shows that skillz can killz and that smarts can overcome size, watching those fights is like watching a craftsman in action. whereas calzaghes slapping (yes he does admittedly slap sometimes) can be hard to watch, toneys style is soooooo easy on the eye.
TONEY takes the intangibles.
CONCLUSION: its a dead heat, both are modern ATG's.Comment
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Exactly. Can you imagine Joe as an unknown young fighter, fighting a prime undefeated fighter of the calibre of Nunn, in Nunn's hometown? Of course not. Then can you imagine him defending the title like six times in one year, vs guys like McCallum? No way. Then can you imagine him whooping Barkely and then years later coming back from nowhere to make a run through Cruiserweight, take out a prime beast in Jirov, and then go up to HW and become a legit contender, and win a title (forget the steroid bull****, it was taken for an injury and toney would have beaten Ruiz's ass with one hand behind his back anyway)
No, Joe fought a past it Eubank for his first title. Made defences vs nobodies, solid pros but not the type of guys you fight to create a legacy. Then he beats an overrated lacy, beats Kessler who has fought no one besides a one dimensonal slugger in andrade and that joke Mundine, escapes with a thin decision vs a 43 year old Hopkins who would have won had he had the energy to mount a sustained offence, and then blitzes a shot Roy
Joe was talented and is a good fighter, but he took a ****** career path and doesnt deserve to be comapred to a guy like toney who put his balls on the line in every fightComment
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