Abraham, Froch, Taylor, Kessler in Showtime Shocker

[MJ406]

Maybe it is behind him (in fact most people would say that it probably is); but nevertheless, losing one fight to someone who may possibly just have had a style he couldn't cope with still wouldn't prove that he couldn't beat some of the other fighters in the tourney. I actually don't think that Taylor was ever on Kessler's level. I think he has a good chance against most of the others in the tourney, though, including against Froch if they fought again. I could turn out to be wrong about that, but if he loses his first fight in the tourney, then that on its own would prove nothing in that respect.

I don't see how it proves absolutely nothing .. yes when looking at the 2 (Froch and Abraham fight very differently)

and fights vs Taylor probably play out so (different)

but there both (Abe, Froch) considered to be top fighters at their weights (even though Abraham has spent more time at 160)

and I'm not saying "oh cuz Froch can beat JT, Abe obviously will"

but there are some fighters in other weight classes, who cannot beat the Elite (or semi) Level fighters of the division

i.e. Collazo for example (losses to Mosley, Berto and Hatton)

and what if that's the case with JT's Super Middle run

but way to early to tell at this point, and we'll just have to see.

1. if this Tourney comes off, and the proposed bouts go as planned and well

2. if Taylor can win vs Abraham.

so it's all very hypothetical at this point.

**2 quick things

regarding the “favorite because of style” again Dave im taking on Paper (before the fight happens) .. when you bring up Hopkins/Pavlik your taking about the end result and no kidding Hopkins style was more effective, that’s pretty Monday morning quarterback to say.

But I was talking before, going into the fight, Pavlik was seen as a heavy favorite. It obviously didn’t work out that way, but experts who thought he’d win thought because he’d throw too many punches etc

and my original comment was, for the record

“as if say Abraham stops Taylor, what will the interest be in wanting to watch Taylor vs Kessler, Ward or even Dirrell?”

I just don’t see how you get me saying “Taylor automatically loses to all the rest” from that above comment

I just wouldn’t be as up for Taylor going on to face Kessler, Ward and etc if he suffered a kayo in his first tournament fight.

[Dave Rado]

and my original comment was, for the record

“as if say Abraham stops Taylor, what will the interest be in wanting to watch Taylor vs Kessler, Ward or even Dirrell?”

The interest would be because of the fact that Taylor might lose to Abraham but still win against Ward or Dirrel (and in some people's opinion, even Kessler). He would probably be the favourite to beat Ward or Dirrel and would have a reasonable chance against Froch, even if he lost to Abraham in his first fight.

I just don’t see how you get me saying “Taylor automatically loses to all the rest” from that above comment

Because if he wouldn't automatically lose to them, which you've now admitted, then the interest, obviously, would be in seeing whether he could win against them.

I just wouldn’t be as up for Taylor going on to face Kessler, Ward and etc if he suffered a kayo in his first tournament fight.

Don't see why, unless you think the fact that he suffered a kayo proves he would lose to them.

Taylor has already proved himself capable of beating some elite fighters and equally capable of losing to other elite fighters who are not necessarily better than the fighters he beat, but whose styles trouble him.

[MJ406]

The interest would be because of the fact that Taylor might lose to Abraham but still win against Ward or Dirrel (and in some people's opinion, even Kessler). He would probably be the favourite to beat Ward or Dirrel and would have a reasonable chance against Froch, even if he lost to Abraham in his first fight.



Because if he wouldn't automatically lose to them, which you've now admitted, then the interest, obviously, would be in seeing whether he could win against them.



Don't see why, unless you think the fact that he suffered a kayo proves he would lose to them.

Taylor has already proved himself capable of beating some elite fighters and equally capable of losing to other elite fighters who are not necessarily better than the fighters he beat, but whose styles trouble him.

well regarding the Abe fight i think a lot goes into nature of victory, i.e. blow out, close decision .. but they are all different match ups (either Ward, Dirrell)

and at this point who knows how it'll play out with these match ups. Hell Abe himself isn't all that proven at Super Middle if you think about it

and of course I'll admit that Taylor wouldn't "automatically" lose, Dave I never said it was automatic, just a possibility.

yes the interest is always in who will win the match ups, but take the whole

Baldomir-Judah-Mayweather situation .. with Judah lining up a fight vs Floyd, but loses the tune up in embarrassing fashion to Baldomir in his home town none the less

meaning the Judah-Mayweather bout will not be for the Undisputed Title

same goes in regards to this tourney. but again it all comes down to nature of defeat, and playing out this JT hypothetical to if he did get kayoed in the first fight, by no means is it an absolute that he'd lose his next fight

personally it would just lower the interest in his 2nd fight a bit.

however depending on the Abe/Taylor outcome, it could actually create more interest in JT's next fight ... as say (he loses 1st fight) and his second tournament opponent lost also

(hypothetically) you'd have both men coming in a fight off of losses, setting up a Must Win type situation, and quite possibly a better overall fight.

Taylor's struggles with the Elite aside (beat Hopkins twice, lost to Pavlik 2x and Froch)

i just find it a bit ironic that Taylor is able to beat men considered superior to him (Hopkins for example)

yet lose in fights where he is, on paper seen to be the Better man (Froch, Pavlik)

and again im talking overall pound for pound, looking at it from a skills stand point.

but I think that's true about not just boxing, but other sports also ... having the superior overall skill set doesn't automatically mean you'll win anything (be it the game, series or in this case fight)

intangibles, you can have all the ability in the world, but if you don't take advantage of it, or use it to your full potential it doesn't matter how much ability you have.

and for example an intangible of Taylor's that haunts him, is his poor stamina.

[11player]

If this tournament does happen it will be great in every sense.

I wish Showtime would specialize in this kind of boxing show and start evening things up with HBO.

[DuttyAlacrity]

This is would be AWESOME!!!!

[ploof1399]

Now that I think about this, I will be shocked if this comes off with Andre Ward in it. Until his fight against Edison Miranda, he had been prtotected by his handlers more closely than the Holy Grail. I can't see them saying, "okay, let's go do this tournament where you my lose twice. It's possible, Andre, that you won't win a match"

With that said, I think Ward will handle himself fine in the ring. If he loses, once or twice, I think he does so competitively. But in boxing, you're only as good as your last fight.

[dstew]

Now that I think about this, I will be shocked if this comes off with Andre Ward in it. Until his fight against Edison Miranda, he had been prtotected by his handlers more closely than the Holy Grail. I can't see them saying, "okay, let's go do this tournament where you my lose twice. It's possible, Andre, that you won't win a match"

With that said, I think Ward will handle himself fine in the ring. If he loses, once or twice, I think he does so competitively. But in boxing, you're only as good as your last fight.

I really hope he participates; hell anyone signing up for a tournament like this where almost everyone is assured to get at least one loss deserves major credit from boxing fans.

As fans we should honor fighters who put it all on the line, even if it means losing their zero, instead of fighters looking only to protect their perfect records by carefully selecting their opponents. I've got a lot more respect for guys like Mosley, Cotto, Taylor, Johnson, etc, than I do for guys like Mayweather and Calzaghe.

[ploof1399]

I really hope he participates; hell anyone signing up for a tournament like this where almost everyone is assured to get at least one loss deserves major credit from boxing fans.

As fans we should honor fighters who put it all on the line, even if it means losing their zero, instead of fighters looking only to protect their perfect records by carefully selecting their opponents. I've got a lot more respect for guys like Mosley, Cotto, Taylor, Johnson, etc, than I do for guys like Mayweather and Calzaghe.

I completely agree with respecting the guys that want to fight regardless of losing the "0". I think people not necessarily need to lose, but they need to put themselves out there.

As fans, we tend to forget about the roles of managers and promoters. Do these handlers want the "0" to go away or do they want to put their fighter out there. That's the biggest thing.

People are so quick to write off a boxer as soon as he loses, or gets knocked out. Hey, people get exposed. The only way you learn is by doing something wrong and you don't know what you're doing wrong until you are in the ring with someone that can counter that.

[TheSurgeonMDMPH]

BRAVO!

If this jumps off, I will be one happy boxing fiend! This would be what boxing needs. No crying about a loss becuz you still have a chance to be the victor. The fans get what they want and the fighters get the opportunity to showcase what they can do in front of millions.

The winner of the tournament would be a huge star!
I will pray/hope/wish for this to come off!

Thank You Showtime

[Greatwhitehope]

Wish Bika was a part of this, perhaps it might allow him to secure a fight with Pavlik.


Should be good, personally I'd be happy with a knockout style competition, I can see something controversial happening with this points system.


Can't wait to watch though!