Lennox Lewis and the KLITCHKO BROTHERS are top 3 heavyweights of all time

[vandiar]

Liston never claimed this. He always said that the fault was Jersey Joe Walcott's refereeing and that he was ready to go on when the fight was stopped.

Sonny cleared his throat, sat up and began talking like a man who is discussing a painful subject for the absolute last time. "Clay caught me cold and the count was messed up, and that's all they was to it," he said. "Clay knocked me down with a good punch. Anybody can get caught cold in the first round, before you even work up a sweat. And when I was down, Clay stood right over me. No, I never blacked out, not for a second. But I wasn't gonna get up, either, not with him standin' over me. See, you can't get up without puttin' one hand on the floor, and so I couldn't protect myself, and he can hit me on the way up.

"So there was Walcott [Referee Jersey Joe Walcott] and Clay wrasslin' over me and Walcott finally got him to a corner or somethin', and then I got up and Clay come back and we started back to fightin' again.

"And Nat Fletcher [ Nat Fleischer, editor of The Ring Magazine] began wavin' his arms at ringside and Walcott stopped the fight. Nowadays Nat Fletcher says he was just callin' Walcott over to tell him that the timekeeper wanted to see him or somethin', but other people says it was Nat Fletcher stopped the fight.

"I was never counted out. I coulda got up even right after I was hit. And I still felt pretty good when I did get up. I mean I could still go on. What Walcott shoulda done, he shoulda sent Cassius to a neutral corner. When the referees call you out in the center of the ring before a fight, they tells you that: go to a neutral corner. And that's when they count you out, not with no fighter standin' right over you.

"They shouldn't have fighters refereein' no fights no way," Sonny added, now back in his horizontal position. "They should have people that don't get excited."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...66/6/index.htm

Thanks for the read. Never knew he said that. Green K coming your way

[hotshoes]

oh my god! people like you still walks this earth

[GJC]

I am saying that if Muhammad was spewing something in the meaning of "You will regret that you called me Clay. My name is Muhammad" then I consider this trashtalk indication enough for a possibility of some *********ic attack outside of the ring. Enough for Liston to make a dive:

Don't believe he ever went down the my name is Clay bit with Liston. Patterson and Terrell he did but don't think he did Liston.
By the way in the mid 60's there wern't too many "*********ic" in the name of Islam but still don't let that get in the way of your facts.

[TheGreatA]

Don't believe he ever went down the my name is Clay bit with Liston. Patterson and Terrell he did but don't think he did Liston.
By the way in the mid 60's there wern't too many "*********ic" in the name of Islam but still don't let that get in the way of your facts.

Ali wasn't even Ali until he fought Liston. He changed his name after winning the championship.

[GJC]

Ali wasn't even Ali until he fought Liston. He changed his name after winning the championship.

I assume he is talking pre 2nd fight when he would have been Ali.
Why the hell am I trying to explain what this fellow is saying lol.

[knn]

Liston never claimed this.

Liston said:

1. He lost because of the Mafia
2. He lost because of the Nation of Islam
3. He lost because of The Ring

You can make your choice.

He always said that the fault was Jersey Joe Walcott's refereeing and that he was ready to go on when the fight was stopped.

TheGreatA, thank you for doing my job by pointing out the controversies behind Ali's wins.

Sonny cleared his throat, sat up and began talking like a man who is discussing a painful subject for the absolute last time. "Clay caught me cold and the count was messed up, and that's all they was to it," he said. "Clay knocked me down with a good punch. Anybody can get caught cold in the first round, before you even work up a sweat. And when I was down, Clay stood right over me. No, I never blacked out, not for a second. But I wasn't gonna get up, either, not with him standin' over me. See, you can't get up without puttin' one hand on the floor, and so I couldn't protect myself, and he can hit me on the way up.

"So there was Walcott [Referee Jersey Joe Walcott] and Clay wrasslin' over me and Walcott finally got him to a corner or somethin', and then I got up and Clay come back and we started back to fightin' again.

"And Nat Fletcher [ Nat Fleischer, editor of The Ring Magazine] began wavin' his arms at ringside and Walcott stopped the fight. Nowadays Nat Fletcher says he was just callin' Walcott over to tell him that the timekeeper wanted to see him or somethin', but other people says it was Nat Fletcher stopped the fight.

"I was never counted out. I coulda got up even right after I was hit. And I still felt pretty good when I did get up. I mean I could still go on. What Walcott shoulda done, he shoulda sent Cassius to a neutral corner. When the referees call you out in the center of the ring before a fight, they tells you that: go to a neutral corner. And that's when they count you out, not with no fighter standin' right over you.

Good post! Thank you.

[knn]

Why is the post order of this forum messed up? How can a reply appear BEFORE the replied-to-post?

[knn]

Let's not forget that Ali's behaviour in the Terell fight:

Muhammad Ali apologized for talking to Terrel throughout the fight, and saying "what's my name" then hitting him. However he said he did it so Terrel and other people would respect his religious beliefs.

Ali showed similar behaviour outside of the ring against Liston. Ali nicknamed him the "Ugly bear" and then...

Clay had driven to Sonny's home in Denver at one o'clock in the morning, shouted for Sonny to come out and fight him on the spot, and set up a huge bear trap on the lawn.

Ali's behavior is so dis-gus-ting. Can you imagine Danny Williams calling Valuev a "Skysc****r" and then waving an aeroplane in front of his face?

[Cereal]

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP bob foster is quoted as saying Ali couldn't punch his way thru a paper bag.

Was that before or after he got knocked out by Ali?

[Phirsole]

Don't compare

As with most fantasy compares, the temper fly high in this thread.

Truths:
a) ATG boxers of former times are in the HOF for a reason. They did dominate their opposition, OR were exciting to watch OR were technically superior OR had a terriffic KO rate - OR all of the reasons.

b) Every HW can only cope with the opponents present - he cannot fight an ATG in the prime, if there is none at the present.

c) Boxers boring to watch will always have a difficult time being loved or accepted as an equal HOFer or even ATG.

I would love to know how a prime Tyson or Ali would fare against Wladimir (who is in his prime right now) or Valuev (dunno if that giant ever got a prime). But we can only guess.

I think we all can agree, that the prime Klitschkos are difficult to beat, even for an ATG in his prime. BUT IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE, and with the Top 10 HW ATG rather likely. A prime L.Lewis, M.Tyson, G.Foreman, M.Ali, would be a worthy opponent for them. And, by saying "worthy opponent", I say, the Klitschkos are worthy opponents for the ATGs. If you think, one of the ATGs wins, or the prime K wins is moot, since we will never know the results.