If Ortiz is a quitter so is Ray Robinson!

[RightCross94]

robinson passed out due to heat exhaustion

frazier wanted to keep fighting and never spoke to eddie futch again after he stopped the fight

[Chr0nic]

i swear you made a thread like this about cotto when he quit, and i think your refrenced robinson in the title also

[TheGreatA]

The refere is an old man, not a fookin boxer. Of cource he wouldn't be as tough as 2 world class fighters(albeit one being a ****** quitter).

The referee was Ruby Goldstein, a 44 year old former professional boxer. Hardly an old man.

Why are you using this as an argument, and ignoring the fact that Maxim never quit in that fight? He was also suffering from heat, dehydration etc. Why did he not quit? Why did Gay Robinson quit instead of him?

The heat doesn't affect anyone the same way. Robinson also had a tradition of going into fights without drinking water. Certainly not a very smart move by him and one he had to pay for under those kind of conditions.

Should I repeat this for you? Because I know you will ignore this like the little girly poster you are.

Why are you using this as an argument, and ignoring the fact that Maxim never quit in that fight? He was also suffering from heat, dehydration etc. Why did he not quit? Why did Gay Robinson quit instead of him?
There have been fighters who were in worse condition and didn't quit.

Actually watching the fight would probably reveal you why.

Maxim was forced on the defensive and could not get many punches off due to Robinson's constant movement, combinations and counter punches which made Maxim pay for every move he made, off-setting Maxim's greater weight advantage. Maxim did not expend as much energy throughout the bout although he was exhausted himself.

According to a newspaper, Robinson had went into the fight as a middleweight and came out a welterweight, he had lost over 10 lbs during the fight.

Find me a fighter who was in worse condition during a fight and didn't end up dead.

[winky44]

The referee was Ruby Goldstein, a 44 year old former professional boxer. Hardly an old man.



The heat doesn't affect anyone the same way. Robinson also had a tradition of going into fights without drinking water. Certainly not a very smart move by him and one he had to pay for under those kind of conditions.



Actually watching the fight would probably reveal you why.

Maxim was forced on the defensive and could not get many punches off due to Robinson's constant movement, combinations and counter punches which made Maxim pay for every move he made, off-setting Maxim's greater weight advantage. Maxim did not expend as much energy throughout the bout although he was exhausted himself.

According to a newspaper, Robinson had went into the fight as a middleweight and came out a welterweight, he had lost over 10 lbs during the fight.

Find me a fighter who was in worse condition during a fight and didn't end up dead.

when and why did pep and langford quit?

[fdotorres]

Easy cowboy! Cotto did quit, HE DID. When you go on a knee he quit and was smart for it! cause it prolly saved his career from the cheater Plasterio...

It's not an ego thing but have you ever boxed... honestly. Do you know what it's liked to get buzzed or to be bleeding. It's a whole new world baby let me tell you that!

This is just one of Ortiz's many great fights to come, he has talent and made a mistake. People do that ya know, I think it's called being human.

did i say ANYWHERE that cotto didn't quit?

he did, but not as badly as ortiz. this guy called cotto a quitter and is saying that ortiz isn't one. THAT'S what i'm trying to get him to accept

[dondi330]

what a ****** thread....It was obvious he quit and the comparison of Ortiz to Robinson...what a loser!

[Slimey Limey]

The referee was Ruby Goldstein, a 44 year old former professional boxer. Hardly an old man.



The heat doesn't affect anyone the same way. Robinson also had a tradition of going into fights without drinking water. Certainly not a very smart move by him and one he had to pay for under those kind of conditions.



Actually watching the fight would probably reveal you why.

Maxim was forced on the defensive and could not get many punches off due to Robinson's constant movement, combinations and counter punches which made Maxim pay for every move he made, off-setting Maxim's greater weight advantage. Maxim did not expend as much energy throughout the bout although he was exhausted himself.

According to a newspaper, Robinson had went into the fight as a middleweight and came out a welterweight, he had lost over 10 lbs during the fight.

Find me a fighter who was in worse condition during a fight and didn't end up dead.

A 44 year old man is nowhere near as tough as 2 world class fighters. You are actually trying to deny this.

Second paragraph: Excuses excuses.

I did see plenty of activity from Maxim. You clearly describe this fight with a biased tone like you always do, so you have zero say in this mate.

What newspaper? And none of the quotes you posted are real unless you post evidence. Go on, I want a source for every single claim you made thus far.

And to you last question:
McClellan fought with a blood cloth in his brain for many rounds.
The lad who was beaten to near death by the plaster wearing fighter who's trainer was Panama Lewis. Never quit.
Evander Holyfield was fighting with actual heart problems against Bowe and Moorer.
You know the lad that was beaten into a coma by Marciano? He never quit while he was in near death condition.
Ali never quit against Holmes while he was fighting with Parkinson.
Frazier was very close to dieing against Ali and did not want to quit.


I could go on for hours mate. See my examples? They are much better than yours.

[TheGreatA]

when and why did pep and langford quit?

Langford gave up against Fred Fulton, Joe Jeannette and Young Peter Jackson.

Pep gave up against Saddler in the third and fourth fights, claiming an injured shoulder and a badly lacerated eye.

[deuce_drop]

Robinson being a quitter should only be brought up when guys who have a bias for old timers start running their mouths about who quit and who didn't.

It's a fact that people are too affraid to admit. You belong in that group. I do not need your luck. Keep it to yourself, I can tell you are a puny weak little lad.

you bring up a decent point about old timers and biased and such, i concur to a certain degree, but puny, little, and weak, not me pally............

good luck to ya, again.

[TheGreatA]

A 44 year old man is nowhere near as tough as 2 world class fighters. You are actually trying to deny this.

But Goldstein was not actually fighting, yet he was still suffering from heat prostration. He was a referee, a former fighter, who was in good shape and not some old man you said he were.

What newspaper? And none of the quotes you posted are real unless you post evidence. Go on, I want a source for every single claim you made thus far.

"He went into the fight weighing 159 pounds and came out at 146."

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6648,1636475

"If he does not restore his fluid loss and enters the ring dehydrated, he may be courting the same disaster that ended the last big money-making light heavyweight championship in New York. It happened three years ago this week, when Sugar Ray Robinson fought Joey Maxim.

Dr. Ira McCown of the State Athletic Commission recalls, "The temperature that day was 94�. The humidity was 90%. That evening was so still and quiet you couldn't even see the flags waving in the breeze—because there was no breeze.

"We had a mass of 45,000 spectators on hand, which increased the heat. At ringside we also had an added factor of about 100 klieg lights overhead. That brought the temperature—it was proven—to 103� at the edge of the ring. Under the lights, we feel undoubtedly, it was nearer 130."

All day long Robinson had taken no fluids. He tried to sleep, but couldn't. He got up about 8 o'clock and Dr. Vincent Nardiello tried to give him something to drink. "I wanted to give him a big glass of lemonade with plenty of sugar. I finally gave him iced tea with plenty of sugar, but he refused to take it. 'Doctor,' he said, 'I've been fighting for 14 years. I never took any fluids before a fight.'

"I said, 'Son, this is a tough night. This is a real hot night. You have got to have fluids.' He didn't take a thing, and that's what licked him. He was absolutely dehydrated."

Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

"The first symptom that we noticed," Dr. McCown remembers, "was about the fourth round—and, mark you, the managers and trainers at ringside said, 'Oh Doc, he's in fine shape. Do you see how he is feinting Maxim for the kill?' Robinson was running around the ropes. I think it was the fifth he went to the wrong corner—well, he went the wrong way, but in the 11th he absolutely went to the wrong corner.

"At the 11th round Dr. Schiff [a ring physician] and I went to his corner. Robinson was very glassy-eyed. His body was wet. He was hot. He didn't know where he was. He was anxious to continue, but he was in no condition. He was absolutely out, physically out.

"When we got him back we had to literally carry him back to his dressing room. I have never seen such a state of cerebral excitation. He didn't know where he was. He was cursing—anybody would do that when he gets in that state. It was a very depressing thing to see."

Robinson was suffering from heat exhaustion. He was dried out to begin with. He became further exhausted because he literally lost three to four quarts of fluid right in the ring, and it wasn't being replaced. Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...22/2/index.htm

Inside the ring, under the lights, where the temperature was 104�, both men kept lighting in their respective styles. They sprayed sweat, but neither seemed un-duly weakened. Robinson took the first 11 rounds with ease. In The New York Times next day Arthur Daley reported, "The middleweight king was truly superb. His combination punches rocked Maxim, and raked him to jaw and body. He hooked and he crossed and he jabbed and he delivered uppercuts. In the seventh Maxim was almost on the verge of a knockout and required smelling salts in his corner." In the same paper James P. Dawson wrote, "Fighting out of a crouch, ignoring a weight handicap of pretty close to twenty pounds, Robinson blazed through the rounds, punching Maxim almost at will."

The fight took a surprising turn at the end of the 10th round, but it did not concern either fighter. Ruby Goldstein, the referee, suddenly caved in. His glistening face turned a horrid gray and. at the bell ending the round, he signaled that he could not continue. The heat had become too much for him. Ray Miller took over at the beginning of the 11th.

Then, not quite so suddenly, but plain for the excited crowd to see, the heat began eating into Sugar Rays reserves. The crowd yelled frantically for him to slow down, to coast along to the end and earn one of the easiest victories of his career. But Robinson continued to dance—on legs that were turning to rubber. Maxim took the 12th round, his first so far, and even began to look like the original figment of Freddie Mills' imagination (and mine). In the 13th Robinson's dance turned to a stagger. He lashed Out awkwardly, missed grotesquely and fell flat on his face. Then he pulled himself up and reeled round the ring. Maxim stared at him, flat-footed, nonplussed, possibly suspecting a trick. No wonder. Nothing in Maxim's career had prepared him to deal with this unprecedented opportunity. As the bell rang at the end of the 13th Robinson stumbled to a neutral corner. He had to be helped over to his stool. His head drooped. Massage and smelling sails failed to revive him. and he was unable to come out for the 14th. The doctor later pronounced it a "heat Stroke."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...88/2/index.htm

And to you last question:
McClellan fought with a blood cloth in his brain for many rounds.
The lad who was beaten to near death by the plaster wearing fighter who's trainer was Panama Lewis. Never quit.
Evander Holyfield was fighting with actual heart problems against Bowe and Moorer.
You know the lad that was beaten into a coma by Marciano? He never quit while he was in near death condition.
Ali never quit against Holmes while he was fighting with Parkinson.
Frazier was very close to dieing against Ali and did not want to quit.

You proved my point pretty well. All these men suffered serious injuries in the ring.