Will Wladimir Klitschko break Joe Lous' 25 title defenses record?

[knn]

It's not like Byrd has any wins over ranked cruiserweights either.

Because Byrd hardly ever fought below 200. Byrd's median KO-victim is 227lbs, Frazier's is 197.

Buster Mathis was a ranked, 6'3, 243 lb opponent whom Frazier knocked out.

Ranked where? I don't see Mathis ranked in the Ring Mag's annual rankings. I don't have any week-by-week rankings at hand. And I don't have any historical NYSAC/WBA/WBC rankings at hand. If you could supply me with them I will be very greatful.

The fight was for the NYSAC version of the heavyweight title, as good as any alphabet title today.

I don't know if it's as good, but so far I accept NYSAC as "world heavyweight title" (except the 4-rounder Davis vs Louis).

You've said that in the 70's there was only one champion but Frazier had to go through several title claimants until becoming recognized as the undisputed champion.

There was the WBA and the WBC title. Ali retires because of criminal charges (-> WBA and WBC become vacant) and Ellis becomes WBA champ, then Frazier beats Ellis and gets the WBA and vacant WBC belt. That is undisputed since he had all belts. After the Supreme Court dropped the charges against Ali because of technicalities Frazier defeated Ali and became Ring champ (all belts + Ring champ = universally recognized).

Manuel Ramos was 21-6, undefeated in his last 15 fights when he fought Frazier and became a journeyman later on because the beating Frazier gave to him ruined him as a fighter.

Oh, you mean 1 fight ruined him? Couldn't have been good then in the first place. And strange that in his first 15 fights he was already a bummy 7-6-2.

I doubt Byrd would knock out Chuvalo.

I also doubt that Byrd could KO Chuvalo.
However I think Byrd could win against Foreman, just like Jimmy Young did.

Ali beat Archie Moore as an up and coming prospect. Look at some of the men Wladimir fought as an up and comer, for example Everett "Bigfoot" Martin a former, grossly overweight super middleweight who was 20-29. This was Wladimir's 27th fight, Moore was Ali's 16th.

Again you are comparing Ali's cruiser wins with Wlad's heavyweight wins.

Moreover are we into comparing bums now? Approx 40%+ of Ali's fights were against bums (= those who lose 25% or more). Approx. 40%+ of Wlad's fights were against bums. Who cares about ATGs beating bums? If you compare bums then always remember that Ali's bums were 25+ lbs LIGHTER than Wlad's. It's quite something different to box against cruiser bums or heavyweight bums.

No one criticizes him for these fights because they were very early in his career, like Ali's fight against Moore who would wipe the floor with any of the fighters I listed even if he was 60 years old.

Noone criticizes Wlad for these fights but noone glorifies him for these fights either. But Archie Moore IS REPEATEDLY MENTIONED as a memorable Ali-win. As is sometimes even Sonny Banks.

[GJC]

Oh, you mean 1 fight ruined him? Couldn't have been good then in the first place. And strange that in his first 15 fights he was already a bummy 7-6-2.

Of course 1 fight can ruin a good fighter I'm sure GreatA will happily supply you with a list, thats the problem when you follow boxing through boxingrec.
Henry Armstrong that well know bummy lost 3 of his 1st 4 so again stats can mean little even before you start to spin them.

However I think Byrd could win against Foreman, just like Jimmy Young did.

With a gun?

But Archie Moore IS REPEATEDLY MENTIONED as a memorable Ali-win

Yes it is REPEATEDLY MENTIONED as a memorable Ali win BUT ONLY BY YOU

[GJC]

So? This is the heavyweight division not the "women's drool division". That extra weight protects them from losing. Did you know that bodybuilders (who sweat off their fat so you can see all muscle definitions) are very prone to injuries of inner organs?

They are probably prone to injuries of inner organs because of steroid abuse which is rampant amongst body builders. Do the Klit brothers suffer from injuries of inner organs? I know Vitali has form.

[IMDAZED]

Because Byrd hardly ever fought below 200. Byrd's median KO-victim is 227lbs, Frazier's is 197.


Ranked where? I don't see Mathis ranked in the Ring Mag's annual rankings. I don't have any week-by-week rankings at hand. And I don't have any historical NYSAC/WBA/WBC rankings at hand. If you could supply me with them I will be very greatful.


I don't know if it's as good, but so far I accept NYSAC as "world heavyweight title" (except the 4-rounder Davis vs Louis).


There was the WBA and the WBC title. Ali retires because of criminal charges (-> WBA and WBC become vacant) and Ellis becomes WBA champ, then Frazier beats Ellis and gets the WBA and vacant WBC belt. That is undisputed since he had all belts. After the Supreme Court dropped the charges against Ali because of technicalities Frazier defeated Ali and became Ring champ (all belts + Ring champ = universally recognized).


Oh, you mean 1 fight ruined him? Couldn't have been good then in the first place. And strange that in his first 15 fights he was already a bummy 7-6-2.


I also doubt that Byrd could KO Chuvalo.
However I think Byrd could win against Foreman, just like Jimmy Young did.


Again you are comparing Ali's cruiser wins with Wlad's heavyweight wins.

Moreover are we into comparing bums now? Approx 40%+ of Ali's fights were against bums (= those who lose 25% or more). Approx. 40%+ of Wlad's fights were against bums. Who cares about ATGs beating bums? If you compare bums then always remember that Ali's bums were 25+ lbs LIGHTER than Wlad's. It's quite something different to box against cruiser bums or heavyweight bums.


Noone criticizes Wlad for these fights but noone glorifies him for these fights either. But Archie Moore IS REPEATEDLY MENTIONED as a memorable Ali-win. As is sometimes even Sonny Banks.

LMAO. Your posts provide good humor. Biggin up Wlad, dissing Ali? Priceless.

[knn]

With a gun?

No, Byrd would win by exposing Foreman's limitedness.

[KESSLER]

Hopefully he will. Wlad > Louis.

[realheavyhands]

What do you think? Obviously two different cases here. Joe Louis was THE champion for all of his defenses while Wlad hasn't even gotten all the belts yet. But counting the main 4 belts, (correct me if I'm wrong) he has defended at least one of them 12 times. He's almost halfway there and just entering the prime of his career.

If he gets by Haye, I see him dominating easily for the next 3 years. That's when the next batch of prospects will be coming through (Fury, Wilder, ect.).

Keep in mind, other than waiting 6 months for Haye in 2009, Wlad fights 3-4 times a year.

if he ever fights vitali he will get killed but besides that.. i think wlad will beat every one for the next 3 years as well .only problem is he fights only 1 or 2 fights per year which is about 6 fights tops including haye.. i thin he may get 5 more defences but thats about it..

[ippo]

They are probably prone to injuries of inner organs because of steroid abuse which is rampant amongst body builders. Do the Klit brothers suffer from injuries of inner organs? I know Vitali has form.

Didn't vitali get steroids from a doctor because of a injury which is normal.

[TheGreatA]

Because Byrd hardly ever fought below 200. Byrd's median KO-victim is 227lbs, Frazier's is 197.

Most of Byrd's KO victims were overweight slobs. Frazier knocked out ranked professionals. As I said before, his best knockout win was probably over a 280 lb grossly overweight alcoholic John Sargent, whose best weight was 205 lbs.

Byrd did fight guys like 203 lb Arthur Williams, was knocked down and won a split decision, 200 lb Uriah Grant, won a UD, 205 lb David Washington, won by 10th round TKO, 175 lb Shaun George, lost by 9th round TKO.

Ranked where? I don't see Mathis ranked in the Ring Mag's annual rankings. I don't have any week-by-week rankings at hand. And I don't have any historical NYSAC/WBA/WBC rankings at hand. If you could supply me with them I will be very greatful.

Frazier knocked Mathis off the rankings. NYSAC thought they were the two best heavyweights in the world who were not included in the WBA tournament.

There was the WBA and the WBC title. Ali retires because of criminal charges (-> WBA and WBC become vacant) and Ellis becomes WBA champ, then Frazier beats Ellis and gets the WBA and vacant WBC belt. That is undisputed since he had all belts. After the Supreme Court dropped the charges against Ali because of technicalities Frazier defeated Ali and became Ring champ (all belts + Ring champ = universally recognized).

Frazier first won the NYSAC title (because he didn't want to take part in the WBA tournament), then the WBC & WBA titles and finally the linear/undisputed title from Ali.

Oh, you mean 1 fight ruined him? Couldn't have been good then in the first place. And strange that in his first 15 fights he was already a bummy 7-6-2.

So were many world champions. That's what tends to happen when you are matched against more experienced fighters early on. Ramos went on a good run, beat several good fighters and was accordingly rated a top 5 contender by the time Frazier fought him.

At the time he fought Frazier he was 21-6, with 15 consecutive wins, which is what matters. Not how his record ended up years later because with the same logic you could discredit the wins of many great fighters.

I also doubt that Byrd could KO Chuvalo.
However I think Byrd could win against Foreman, just like Jimmy Young did.

I guess he could but then again he could also get caught with one big punch like he was against Ike Ibeabuchi.

The Foreman of 1973 was a whole different beast than the Foreman Jimmy Young fought who had his mind set on everything but boxing.

Still, I don't see how Byrd supposedly beating Foreman proves that he has a punch. That's what my original point was, that he couldn't knock out some of the men Frazier did, thus he is not as big a puncher.

Again you are comparing Ali's cruiser wins with Wlad's heavyweight wins.

Moreover are we into comparing bums now? Approx 40%+ of Ali's fights were against bums (= those who lose 25% or more). Approx. 40%+ of Wlad's fights were against bums. Who cares about ATGs beating bums? If you compare bums then always remember that Ali's bums were 25+ lbs LIGHTER than Wlad's. It's quite something different to box against cruiser bums or heavyweight bums.

Martin was a "heavyweight" because he was a fat slob and you know it. Shame on Archie Moore for actually keeping himself in shape.

Noone criticizes Wlad for these fights but noone glorifies him for these fights either. But Archie Moore IS REPEATEDLY MENTIONED as a memorable Ali-win. As is sometimes even Sonny Banks.

No it's not. It was a solid win for an up and comer and nothing more. Ali had more than enough big wins on his resume that the Moore win doesn't have to be glorified. It's probably not even a top 10 win on his resume.

[TheGreatA]

Didn't vitali get steroids from a doctor because of a injury which is normal.

Then again so did Vargas, Toney and most others who were caught for steroid-use. It's the popular excuse, or a legit reason for it, after all who am I to judge.

Still, I don't think Vitali should get away with it when the others won't.