This is why Wlad still is not THE CHAMP

**Hayehammer** · 06-20-2009, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by lennon

Vitali still has the stronger lineage as champion. Vitali actuallty fought the last champ, Lewis, in Lewis`s last fight.

But apart from that, he fought for Lewis`s vacant title against Sanders [who was WBO champ]. Sanders had beaten Wladimir in his last fight and Vitali then beat Sanders. Vitali holds the lineage of victory over Wladimir through Wlads unavenged loss to Sanders. Vitali won Lewis`s retired belt and in reality the WBO belt since Sanders was only stripped of it for fighting for the WBC belt!

Vitali gained the Ring belt also which he never lost. He retired without losing his championship. When he returned from retirement he beat the holder of his belt to clear up any claim to his status.

Wlad gained his IBF belt from Byrd! Byrds claim to that belt was beating an undeserving 42 year old Holyfield for a VACANT paper title at the time that Lewis was THE CHAMPION, that belt did not make Byrd champion. Lewis was. Wlad also gained the paper and VACANT IBO title in this fight! All Wlads belts were Vacant titles with no lineage behind them greater than Vitali`s.

The WBO belt Wlad holds was won off Ibragimov in the worst fight in history, Ibragimov won the belt from a line that goes back to a VACANT championship fight for it which Wlad lost to Brewster after it was stripped from the holder, Sanders who ko`d Wlad for the WBO belt and then lost that lineage to Vitali.

THERFORE WE CAN CONCLUDE THAT THE LINEAGE OF CHAMPIONSHIPS RUN STRONGER THROUGH TO VITALI KLITSCHKO.

To summerise, Vitali holds this over Wlad,

Lewis`s retired title, WBC.
He never lost the Ring title.
Lineage of victory over Wlad.
Lineage of WBO title.

Plus who really thinks Wlad could beat Vitali?

Also, beating Chagaev wont add much, Chagaev hasnt fought good opponents and got his title from another short lineage back to Ruiz`s vacant title win.

You are right! Wlad will be ever known as the weaker brother! Because of that losses he didnt avenge! And vitali fought the better fighters!

**MANGLER** · 06-20-2009, 07:00 AM

VK>Wlad. But Wlad had taken over the division by the time VK came back and owned Peter. They basically share the crown now, but Wlad is the man for the most part. he makes it official against Chag.

**knn** · 06-20-2009, 07:51 AM

lennon, your whole post tries to ridicule Wlad's victories by inserting your opinionated adjectives and twists...

Originally posted by lennon

Vitali actuallty fought the last champ, Lewis, in Lewis`s last fight.

...AND LOST

Originally posted by lennon

Vitali gained the Ring belt also which he never lost.

...as can be the case today for Wlad.

Originally posted by lennon

He retired without losing his championship. When he returned from retirement he beat the holder of his belt to clear up any claim to his status.

Wlad also beat Peter. You could even make a case that Wlad actually beat the stronger Peter while Peter's chin was already softened up (by Wlad) when Vitali beat Peter.

Originally posted by lennon

Byrds claim to that belt was beating an undeserving

"Undeserving"

Originally posted by lennon

VACANT paper title

"Paper title"

Originally posted by lennon

The WBO belt Wlad holds was won off Ibragimov in the worst fight in history

Pure hater comment.

Originally posted by lennon

THERFORE WE CAN CONCLUDE THAT THE LINEAGE OF CHAMPIONSHIPS RUN STRONGER THROUGH TO VITALI KLITSCHKO.

Even IF Vitali would have stronger claims to "lineage", this is not what you claimed in the thread title "Why Wlad still is not THE CHAMP".

Originally posted by lennon

Plus who really thinks Wlad could beat Vitali?

Pure speculation that Vitali would win.

Originally posted by lennon

Chagaev hasnt fought good opponents

Again, pure opinion.

If there is some "paper" involved then it's your "Paper case against Wladimir"

Let me also add that this lineage business is some kind of "Mythical Excalibur Sword" like "Only Marciano can trace back his title to KING ARTHUR":

Imagine some champ retires
The title is vacant and the 2 top boxers fight for it
One boxer wins and then beats for the next 30 years the toppest challengers (based on Ring Mag Rankings and other rankings).
De facto he will be one of the best boxers EVER LIVED, yet he would have never been the linear champ nor had he ever beaten another world champ.
IN OTHER WORDS: You punish boxers who beat everybody, while you OVERRATE boxers who RETIRE (and then win the title back, like Vitali) or LOSE (and then win the title back, like Ali/Frazier).

**lennon** · 06-20-2009, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by knn

lennon, your whole post tries to ridicule Wlad's victories by inserting your opinionated adjectives and twists...

...AND LOST

...as can be the case today for Wlad.

Wlad also beat Peter. You could even make a case that Wlad actually beat the stronger Peter while Peter's chin was already softened up (by Wlad) when Vitali beat Peter.

"Undeserving"

"Paper title"

Pure hater comment.

Even IF Vitali would have stronger claims to "lineage", this is not what you claimed in the thread title "Why Wlad still is not THE CHAMP".

Pure speculation that Vitali would win.

Again, pure opinion.

If there is some "paper" involved then it's your "Paper case against Wladimir"

Let me also add that this lineage business is some kind of "Mythical Excalibur Sword" like "Only Marciano can trace back his title to KING ARTHUR":

Imagine some champ retires
The title is vacant and the 2 top boxers fight for it
One boxer wins and then beats for the next 30 years the toppest challengers (based on Ring Mag Rankings and other rankings).
De facto he will be one of the best boxers EVER LIVED, yet he would have never been the linear champ nor had he ever beaten another world champ.
IN OTHER WORDS: You punish boxers who beat everybody, while you OVERRATE boxers who RETIRE (and then win the title back, like Vitali) or LOSE (and then win the title back, like Ali/Frazier).

sorry pal but you were unable to refute the facts i posted regarding the lineage of each of the brothers titles. Vitali is undisputedly the champion of Klitschko brothers.

**Silver Shamrock** · 06-20-2009, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by lennon

The WBO belt Wlad holds was won off Ibragimov in the worst fight in history

It was awful to watch but Wlad completely dominated Iggy for the whole fight.

**knn** · 06-20-2009, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by lennon

sorry pal but you were unable to refute the facts i posted regarding the lineage of each of the brothers titles. Vitali is undisputedly the champion of Klitschko brothers.

What facts? Your spins?

Vitali (titleless) fought for the WBO title from Herbie Hide... and won
Vitali (WBO champ) lost it to Byrd
Then Vitali (titleless) fought against Lennox for the WBC title... and lost.
Then Vitali (titleless) fought against Sanders (titleless) for the VACANT WBC title... and won
Then he retired and beat Sam Peter (WBC)

WHERE THE HECK IS YOUR FREAKING LINEAGE?

By Vitali beating Sam Peter? May I remind you that Wlad already beat Peter before?

Wlad by winning his titles and defending them (13 times) has a far superior case than Vitali (6 times), Tyson (12 times) or even Rocky "lineal champ" Marciano (7 times, against the same 5 guys, of which only Don ****ell was > 200 lbs).

Thus actually your whole lineage nonsense falls apart BECAUSE ALREADY ROCKY MARCIANO has won only ONCE in his entire heavyweight career a world title.

**GJC** · 06-20-2009, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by knn

What facts? Your spins?

Haha pot, kettle.

You wouldn't know an unspinned untwisted fact if it bit you.

**Pretty Boy1** · 06-20-2009, 01:58 PM

I think Wlad's a good boxer but he will always be viewed as the weaker brother IMO! Looking foprward to the fight tonight though!

**knn** · 06-20-2009, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by GJC

Haha pot, kettle.

You wouldn't know an unspinned untwisted fact if it bit you.

Haha, good post.
I mean it!

Although I disagree, of course...

This is why Wlad still is not THE CHAMP