Wlad/Chagaev in jeopardy! Chagaev tests positive for Hepatitis B.

[The Hammer]

It's either Tunney's alt or Klitschko2009's.

Poet

I don't have any alts.

[GJC]

ROFL, get ready for the "racist self-hater" barrage.

Do you remember that film a few years back "Identity"? Not bad film with quite a good premise.
Well reading these posts feels like that film.

[StarshipTrooper]

I don't have any alts.

Yes you do.

Poet

[Dan...]

It's either Tunney's alt or Klitschko2009's.

Poet

Well then its definately Tunney.

Klitschko2009 is far too basic an individual to type posts that long.

[Dan...]

Do you remember that film a few years back "Identity"? Not bad film with quite a good premise.
Well reading these posts feels like that film.

It is too bad ~Ironfist isn't around anymore, it was funny watching Tunney talk to himself.

[StarshipTrooper]

Well then its definately Tunney.

Klitschko2009 is far too basic an individual to type posts that long.

Good point. Klitschko2009 (aka Wlad Ownz) is barely capable of discourse slightly higher than caveman grunts. Tunney has a rather robotic, clumsy, pre-programmed speel (much like the way the Klitschkos fight) that he drones on and on with.

Poet

[The Hammer]

It is too bad ~Ironfist isn't around anymore, it was funny watching Tunney talk to himself.

Why do you always attack me with one or more other person, but you never start on me alone?

You're like that in real life I bet. Brave when you're with one or more people to back you against one person, but too cowardly to fight one against one.

Who is the ugly man in my avatar, Poet?

[StarshipTrooper]

Why do you always attack me with one or more other person, but you never start on me alone?

You're like that in real life I bet. Brave when you're with one or more people to back you against one person, but too cowardly to fight one against one.

Who is the ugly man in my avatar, Poet?

More evidence I own you Tunney So! How long is it going to be before you go over the edge again and get your current account perma-banned like you did you Canada Joe account? Remember how unhinged I made you? You're MINE biotch!

Poet

[knn]

You fail to mention that Archie Moore fought at around 145-150 lbs in his first two professional bouts. In total he had 220 fights and most of them at 175 lbs and above.

The man was an ATG light heavyweight and had a very good record at HW as well

• I say "Dogs eat their own vomit"
• And you reply "Oh, no no no. Dogs are man's best friend and dogs descended from wolfs"
• And I have to reply: "Yes, dogs are all of that... AND THEY EAT THEIR OWN VOMIT".

Yes, Archie Moore was all of that... and Ali beat this old welterweight when Archie Moore was nearly 50 years old. That's the Golden age of Boxing.

Alabama Kid fought at 112 lbs when he was 15 years of age. He spent most of his career as a middleweight.

Yes, Alabama Kid was all of that... and Archie Moore KOed poor Alabama Kid in Alabama Kid's 248th fight. That's also the Golden Age of Boxing.

Can you imagine nowadays heavies having a record consisting of such wins?

Wladimir Klitschko does have a win over a man who weighed 140 lbs when he was 20 years of age and it's his career best win over Chris Byrd.

And when Wladimir was 5 years old he was 30 lbs. Who cares about some amateur bouts? Don't twist things please.
Chris Byrd's median weight of all his fights is 213 lbs.
Alabama kids' median weight is 160. His opponents' approx. 150.
This is the only thing that counts, not birth weights.

I also don't care about Ali's Olympic gold medal in the sub-cruiser division (< 178 lbs). All I care about is the pro record.

Lewis had not gone through the wars that Holyfield had.

In other words: Lennox was better thus he didn't have to.

Most people though he should have retired after losing to Rid**** Bowe years previously.

Usually "most people" can be translated into "most haters" or "most gloaters".

Ali too was older than the opponents he fought in the 70's yet you criticize those wins in every possible way.

Do I criticize? I just try to remind people of the Golden Age!

You have got to be kidding me. Danny Williams and Kevin McBride weigh that much because they are grossly overweight.

SO WHAT? Weight protects against punches. Williams was maybe overweight but he looked pretty active and effective.

Calling light heavyweights welterweights, all-time greats half-blinds, drugged and bumbeaters is not down-grading opponents? Are you kidding me?

Yes, that _IS_ downgrading. But you went further by 2nd-level-downgrading: By downgrading opponent's opponents.

Most of his opponents were cruiserweights, thus they are meaningless as heavyweight title defenses, according to YOUR logic.

Yeah, let's get back to Ezzard Charles (185) vs Nick Barone (178) (Heavyweight World Title fight 1950) and call it heavyweight. Let's allow Klitschko to beat some 170+ guys to sex up his record.

The haters of the current-heavies would run amok.

Clinching is dirty? Wladimir Klitschko clinched nearly 100 times against Sam Peter

I stopwatched the fight against Peter. Klitschko clinched HALF AS MUCH AS ALI (in the first 7 rounds of Thrilla in Manilla Ali has done more holding than Klitschko in the entire Sam Peter fight). Let me also add that Klistchko simply wraps his opponent while Ali CHOKES the throat, pushes the HEAD DOWN and INSULTS. Yes, that's dirty.

Lennox Lewis was a notorious clincher

Nothing compares to Muhammad "The greatest clincher" Ali.

Having no manners doesn't mean you're a great heavyweight.

Please re-read what you wrote. Or at least re-phrase.

Ali did not run against Terrell, he beat Terrell up.

Yes, took Ali 15 rounds of *cough* floating.

These statistics have nothing to do with anything. Fact is that the heavyweight division back then included men who were under 200 lbs and the fights went 15 rounds. The cruiserweight limit wasn't even more than 190 lbs until just a couple of years ago.

Who cares that the fight was called "heavyweight" back then? They could have called 150 lbs "heavyweight" in the medieval ages. But 150lbs is 150lbs and Schmeling vs Joe Louis (192 vs 198) _IS_ a cruiser fight, no matter how it _WAS_ called then.

Eliminating KO's over men who were under 200 lbs

No, that's not true. It will make Ali's CRUISER RECORD better.

If you would be completely correct then Ali doesn't have 15 KOs in his entire career but only 11. Because in 4 of the KOs Ali himself was below 200 (while his opponent was > 200) = He was allowed cruiser speed against a heavier opponent. THAT's how featherfisty Ali was: ELEVEN real heavyweight KOs (= comparable KOs to nowadays heavies) IN HIS ENTIRE career. Anyone who claims that Ali would have had any chances against rocksolid chins/defenses of the Klitschko's... needs some serious contemplation.

and KO's that were scored in rounds 13-15 will of course make anyone's KO statistics worse.

I am pretty sure Wlad would have KOed Sam Peter, Ibragimov and Byrd in rounds 13-15. But nowadays heavies don't have that luxury.

I agree however, that that is a weak point in my KO-amount calculation, since one may argue "A fighter adjusts to a 15rounder". HOWEVER in my view NOONE WANTS to wait 13 rounds to spring into action to KO the opponent. Instead I view it as a FAILURE to KO an opponent earlier. I don't view it as an adjustment to 15 rounds.

A much more suitable way to decide who was the better puncher of the two is to take a look at the amount of KO's scored over ranked opposition.

Ranked by whom? By some American journalists? The same kind of journalists who complain about the current heavies and miss the Golden Age of Boxing?

Chris Byrd only scored a single stoppage win over a ranked opponent throughout his whole career,an injury-related corner retirement against Vitali, while Ali had several, over all-time great heavyweights as well.

You try to downgrade Byrd's win over Vitali. Vitali broke his shoulder BECAUSE Byrd was so flexible. Yes, Vitali is said to have had problems already in training, but nevertheless there is no reason to downgrade Byrd's win.

Offer proof that Foreman was drugged.

There is no final proof. That's why I wrote "probably". But I trust Foreman on that issue.

Again Byrd did not score any legit KO wins over any ranked opponents, only tomato cans and the punching bags.

This is the difference between us: I give FACTS. You are downgrading wins and opponents without proof or documentation.

So I'm supposed to believe that Chris Byrd was a better heavyweight than Joe Frazier? You are alone on that I'm afraid.

Alone, or not: I have facts, others have opinions. There is no chance that too many opinions will survive in light of counter-facts.

Feather-fisted Joe Frazier:

You can always prove some powerpunching quality with some peak performances or trademark fights. Your Youtube link is exactly what I complain about: That noone actually checks the record, instead judges a fighter by a few rounds.

[The Hammer]

More evidence I own you Tunney So! How long is it going to be before you go over the edge again and get your current account perma-banned like you did you Canada Joe account? Remember how unhinged I made you? You're MINE biotch!

Poet

I noticed you haven't been around much lately, since I you in the thunderdome.

You seem like a very lonely person, Poet. You're ugly and poor, and your teeth are rotting. I saw your poem "Caitlin"...

It must really suck to be you. That's why you're so obnoxious, you're trying to give your own misery to others.