No Offense to PAC Fans, but...

[ИATAS]

If Cotto struggles to make 147 (even though he weighed 146 against Clottey), then Cotto SHOULDNT BE SEEKING A FIGHT WITH PACMAN BELOW 147. It goes both ways.

If pacman isn't willing to fight at 147 and cotto isn't willing to fight below 147, then don't fight, simple.

But that's not reality. The reality is Cotto wants to fight Pac and is willing to do so under 147 (as of now that's what it appears). Pac is willing to go up a few pounds or so. What's the problem? If anything, Pac is bending way to much for these guys, he struggled to weigh 138 pounds against Hatton and had to eat two meals before weigh in just to get there.

I respect your guys opinions, I simply don't agree. We'll have to agree to disagree at this point because clearly we aren't going to see eye to eye on this one.

[THE REED]

If Cotto struggles to make 147 (even though he weighed 146 against Clottey), then Cotto SHOULDNT BE SEEKING A FIGHT WITH PACMAN BELOW 147. It goes both ways.

If pacman isn't willing to fight at 147 and cotto isn't willing to fight below 147, then don't fight, simple.

But that's not reality. The reality is Cotto wants to fight Pac and is willing to do so under 147 (as of now that's what it appears). Pac is willing to go up a few pounds or so. What's the problem?

I respect your guys opinions, I simply don't agree. We'll have to agree to disagree at this point because clearly we aren't going to see eye to eye on this one.

The problem is... Cotto will not be at his best, and Pac won't get full credit for beating a Cotto under 147...

Of course Cotto will take the fight.. were talking millions of dollars.

It's the credit issue... Cotto/Mosley wont get credit for beating Pac because of their size.

And Pac wont get full credit for beating Cotto/Mosley under 147lbs.. whether Cotto/Mosley are willing to fight there or not.


So PAC, fight them at their best.. at 147. If you lose, they were too big anyways... if you win... you get full credit for beating a welterweight at welterweight.

Mosley/Cotto, You most likely won't get any credit for beating Pac anyways, unless PAC moves to WW and fully establishes himself first.


And all the while this is happening, we have two champions (Cotto/Mosley) in a weight class that aren't focusing on their weight class, and Pac... who isn't even KIND OF looking at his weight class.

[TyroneSpong]

I kind of feel he is disrupting the welterweight and JR. WW division...

For starters... Mosley-Cotto SHOULD be the very next fight...

You have the two biggest guys, the two champions of the division, and neither are looking at any other welterweights right now..

Then you have PAC who has the Lineal title at 140... and he isn't looking at any other 140lbers right now, either..

Mosley Cotto are the two guys are at the very top of their division, their last fight was very close... and I think Mosley-Cotto should be happening next, but neither of them can take their eyes off Pacman. I understand why, I do... but I feel like they should be focused on becoming the undisputed champion. How good can you feel as champion... when there are two other champions in your own weightclass... I feel like that is unfinished business.

I also feel like, if Pac feels he can beat welters, then he should fight them at welter... If they are too big, then stay at JR WW... until you feel you can handle another move up in weight.

Catchweights may make for interesting fights, but they do not help us sort out either division. In a time of boxing when every weight class has 3-4 different champions, these catch weight fights aren't helping matters.

Also, neither fighter will get full credit for a win... If you beat Mosley or Cotto under 147lbs, how much credit do you expect to get?

Just to end all that, it's not that I wouldn't enjoy a catchweight between Pac-Mosley or Pac-Cotto... I definitely would, I would buy both fights, and I would enjoy both fights, and I know they would BOTH be exciting... I just think as far as boxing purists, there are more important things.

Like a unified champion in the division.

P.s. I am assuming about a 50% agree/disagree here... because I know a lot of people prefer these catchweights... and it's understandable.

Extra Side Note: Full blame is not just on Pac, but Cotto and Mosley as well..

Pac if you want to fight Cotto/Mosley beat them at their best... if you can't, then stay in your division or wait until you can move up to do so...

Cotto/Mosley: You have unfinished business

I agree that Pac-Cotto/Mosley should be at WW but I disagree on Cotto-Mosley 2 being a priority.

First of all, Cotto-Mosley 2 isn't even in high demand. Nor would it be, as you said, an exciting match as one of those two vs Pac. That fight isn't even that interesting and Pac vs either of these fighters is in MUCH more high demand.

Secondly, Cotto fighting Mosley again won't change anything much about there being multiple champs in boxing. Even if they fight again, that picture wont' change. So it would be a waste of a huge fight opportunity for Pac and either of his opponents.

[THE REED]

And that's fine Natas we can agree to disagree... I planned on doing that with a lot of people on this topic.

And in my first post I specifically stated...

"It's not that I wouldn't enjoy a catchweight between Pac-Mosley or Pac-Cotto... I definitely would, I would buy both fights, and I would enjoy both fights, and I know they would BOTH be exciting"

I still love you

[THE REED]

I agree that Pac-Cotto/Mosley should be at WW but I disagree on Cotto-Mosley 2 being a priority.

First of all, Cotto-Mosley 2 isn't even in high demand. Nor would it be, as you said, an exciting match as one of those two vs Pac. That fight isn't even that interesting and Pac vs either of these fighters is in MUCH more high demand.

Secondly, Cotto fighting Mosley again won't change anything much about there being multiple champs in boxing. Even if they fight again, that picture wont' change. So it would be a waste of a huge fight opportunity for Pac and either of his opponents.

3 Champions (Cotto Mosley Berto) Would become TWO champions, with one being RECOGNIZED at the top of the division.

Then we are one fight away.

I think a lot of people would disagree with you on wanting to see Cotto/Mosley again.

[Pullcounter]

I kind of feel he is disrupting the welterweight and JR. WW division...

you can't just put the blame on pac for WWs begging pac for a fight.

For starters... Mosley-Cotto SHOULD be the very next fight...

You have the two biggest guys, the two champions of the division, and neither are looking at any other welterweights right now..

that's mosley's and cotto's fault though, not pac's fault.

Then you have PAC who has the Lineal title at 140... and he isn't looking at any other 140lbers right now, either..

pac has always said he's open to fight anyone including jr WWs. its the media and bob arum that keep wanting pac to fight WWs.

Mosley Cotto are the two guys are at the very top of their division, their last fight was very close... and I think Mosley-Cotto should be happening next, but neither of them can take their eyes off Pacman. I understand why, I do... but I feel like they should be focused on becoming the undisputed champion. How good can you feel as champion... when there are two other champions in your own weightclass... I feel like that is unfinished business.

I agree, these WWs should be fighting each other rather than pick on a jr WW.

I also feel like, if Pac feels he can beat welters, then he should fight them at welter... If they are too big, then stay at JR WW... until you feel you can handle another move up in weight.

well, lets put it in a different perspective. pac is the p4p champ, so if mosley and cotto want to fight pac, they should come down to 140 lbs and if they can't they shouldn't even bother sniffing pac's crotch. (no ****)

Catchweights may make for interesting fights, but they do not help us sort out either division. In a time of boxing when every weight class has 3-4 different champions, these catch weight fights aren't helping matters.

imho cotto/mosley should take care of business at WW before turning their attention elsewheres. instead, we got 2 dudes begging pac for a fight.

Also, neither fighter will get full credit for a win... If you beat Mosley or Cotto under 147lbs, how much credit do you expect to get?

but again, lets look at it from a different perspective. if mosley and cotto are middleweights on fight night and pac is a welterweight on fight night, how much credit do they really deserve for beating pac? not much imho.

Just to end all that, it's not that I wouldn't enjoy a catchweight between Pac-Mosley or Pac-Cotto... I definitely would, I would buy both fights, and I would enjoy both fights, and I know they would BOTH be exciting... I just think as far as boxing purists, there are more important things.

I think the most important thing is that the fight is fair. you can't be having MWs (mosley and cotto) fighting WWs (pac). the playing field needs to be leveled somehow otherwise its a mismatch and pac has no chance.

Like a unified champion in the division.

Yeah, i'd prefer a unified champ at WW and jr WW before a catchweight fight between the unified champs.

P.s. I am assuming about a 50% agree/disagree here... because I know a lot of people prefer these catchweights... and it's understandable.

I don't like catchweights either, but its the only way to make a fight between MWs (mosley and cotto) and WWs (pac) fair.

[fcastro1]

The problem is... Cotto will not be at his best, and Pac won't get full credit for beating a Cotto under 147...

Of course Cotto will take the fight.. were talking millions of dollars.

It's the credit issue... Cotto/Mosley wont get credit for beating Pac because of their size.

And Pac wont get full credit for beating Cotto/Mosley under 147lbs.. whether Cotto/Mosley are willing to fight there or not.


So PAC, fight them at their best.. at 147. If you lose, they were too big anyways... if you win... you get full credit for beating a welterweight at welterweight.

Mosley/Cotto, You most likely won't get any credit for beating Pac anyways, unless PAC moves to WW and fully establishes himself first.


And all the while this is happening, we have two champions (Cotto/Mosley) in a weight class that aren't focusing on their weight class, and Pac... who isn't even KIND OF looking at his weight class.

if the fight was at 144 cotto just made 146 which is only 2 pounds different. i think people ar makin too much of this weight drain issue because of oscar but everyone should remember that he messed up his training, if he done it right he could have rehydrated.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

i want to see PAC-Torres

[THE REED]

you can't just put the blame on pac for WWs begging pac for a fight.

that's mosley's and cotto's fault though, not pac's fault.


pac has always said he's open to fight anyone including jr WWs. its the media and bob arum that keep wanting pac to fight WWs.


I agree, these WWs should be fighting each other rather than pick on a jr WW.


well, lets put it in a different perspective. pac is the p4p champ, so if mosley and cotto want to fight pac, they should come down to 140 lbs and if they can't they shouldn't even bother sniffing pac's crotch. (no ****)

imho cotto/mosley should take care of business at WW before turning their attention elsewheres. instead, we got 2 dudes begging pac for a fight.

but again, lets look at it from a different perspective. if mosley and cotto are middleweights on fight night and pac is a welterweight on fight night, how much credit do they really deserve for beating pac? not much imho.


I think the most important thing is that the fight is fair. you can't be having MWs (mosley and cotto) fighting WWs (pac). the playing field needs to be leveled somehow otherwise its a mismatch and pac has no chance.


Yeah, i'd prefer a unified champ at WW and jr WW before a catchweight fight between the unified champs.


I don't like catchweights either, but its the only way to make a fight between MWs (mosley and cotto) and WWs (pac) fair.

As much as Id love to quote every single line you made... I wont. We agree on 75% of it.

THe point you mnade about not only blaming Pac... I put that in the end of my 1st post. Pac is not ONLY at fault here...


With the catchweight scenario, you talking about the playing field needs to be levelled... the way I see it... Cotto/Mosley beating Pac they dont get full credit no matter what weight is at because their too big.

Where as at least PAC would get full credit for beating Cotto/Mosley AT WW instead of under, where a possibility of being weight drained is highly likely.

[THE REED]

if the fight was at 144 cotto just made 146 which is only 2 pounds different. i think people ar makin too much of this weight drain issue because of oscar but everyone should remember that he messed up his training, if he done it right he could have rehydrated.

I think people overlook how difficult an extra 2 pounds is when you are ALREADY dehydrating to make 147.