Klitschko vs. Chagaev is Set For June 20 in Germany

[knn]

That is a ridiculous post, even by your standards. Shavers wasn't a gifted fighter but he had a good career mainly because of his freakish power. You don't just go by KO% to judge power, other factors get taken into consideration aswell, and first hand opinions are very important. He's got first round knockouts over Ellis and Norton, stopped Young and Bugner within 3 rounds and had 23 first round knockouts.

No, he had 22 first round KOs.
Against a median opponent of 12-16 (career) and 7-7 (at bout) -> BUMS.

And he had 10 KO wins against 200+ opponents in round 1 with an EVEN WORSE median record.

Bugner, Norton and Duncan are his biggest wins. And it practically stops right there. I don't count Ellis as a big win since 1) Ellis started at 155 lbs 2) is a featherfist 3) was not even a 200+ opponent.

People like Ali, Holmes and Tex Cobb (among others) said they've never been hit as hard in their lives and they've been in with guys like Liston, Foreman, Tyson, Cooney, etc.

I don't trust the opinions of boxers about the perceived strength of opponents.

What did Larry Holmes say (after being TKOed the first and only time). The reporter asks "How does the punch of Mike Tyson compare to Earnie Shavers and Ken Norton and others etc?" And what does Holmes say? "The others punch MUCH HARDER THAN TYSON" It's ridiculous. Don't trust boxers about the strength of their opponents.

It is debatable but most people's opinions within the sport that I've read think Shavers hit the hardest. In your opinion who was the hardest hitting HW then?

Foreman, Tyson and both Klitschkos hit the hardest.

The problem with Shavers is his bummed up record. Let's take his FIRST 50 fights. His median opponent is 13wins-18losses(career) and 10-08(at bout). In other words: Greens and bums. As soon as the opposition got better he dramatically failed.

[Thunder Lips]

Forget Chageav, David Haye is EXCITEMENT!!! Chageav may have actually fought a tough opponent this year but look at what Haye has accomplished in the last six months. The action level is not even close.

[Dave Rado]

No, he had 22 first round KOs.
Against a median opponent of 12-16 (career) and 7-7 (at bout) -> BUMS.

Blah blah. You're obviously a statistics fan, not a boxing fan.

Ellis started at 155 lbs

Irrelevant, he was a top heavyweight by the time they fought. Pacquiao started at Jnr Flyweight, so what?

I don't trust the opinions of boxers about the perceived strength of opponents.

What did Larry Holmes say (after being TKOed the first and only time). The reporter asks "How does the punch of Mike Tyson compare to Earnie Shavers and Ken Norton and others etc?" And what does Holmes say? "The others punch MUCH HARDER THAN TYSON" It's ridiculous.

He didn't say much harder, he said they punch harder but that Tyson's punches were cleaner and more accurate and that's why he was stopped by Tyson. And Tyson took quite a few punches to put Holmes away. there's nothing about what Holmes said that lacks credibility. Ali also said that Shavers hit him harder than any other opponent he ever faced. The reason that Shavers didn't beat many top fighters is that he wasn't very skilful and he got outboxed. And to trust statistics rather than the experience of the people who have actually been hit by the fighter is just crazy.

[knn]

Blah blah. You're obviously a statistics fan, not a boxing fan.

It's always amusing how "nostalgic experts" ignore FACTS (= career records). And instead just concentrate on their favorite fights as a proof for their opinion.

Irrelevant, he was a top heavyweight by the time they fought.

Just shows you how crappy the division was. And that obviously noone (until this very day even) separates bum-opponents from non-bum-opponents.

He didn't say much harder, he said they punch harder

Wrong. He said "Well, I gotta say he is a sharper puncher than other guys. OTHER GUYS PUNCH MUCH HARDER".

You see, Dave Rado, you not only seem to IGNORE FACTS (= records) but you also INVENT stuff to fit your opinion.

By the way, it's not the first time that I encounter "nostalgic box fans" who invent stuff and twist records to prove 1) how great previous eras were and 2) how crappy the current era is.

And to trust statistics rather than the experience of the people who have actually been hit by the fighter is just crazy.

The final proof that Dave Rado honors someone's OPINION more than FACTS.

[Dave Rado]

The final proof that Dave Rado honors someone's OPINION more than FACTS.

There is only one factual way to measure how hard someone can punch and that is to measure the force with a machine. Any other method, including statistics, is opinion. There are lies, damned lies and statistics. KO percentage does not measure how hard someone's punch is, there are far too many variables. And it's just idiotic to claim that the opinion of someone who has taken punches from two fighters as to which one hit him harder is worthless.

Similar points apply to all your other statements.

[knn]

There is only one factual way to measure how hard someone can punch and that is to measure the force with a machine.

No, that way you only measure how hard one can punch a machine.

Similar points apply to all your other statements.

Is this how you try to convince others?

"Similar points apply to all your other statements!"

Hahaha.

[The Hammer]

Forget Chageav, David Haye is EXCITEMENT!!! Chageav may have actually fought a tough opponent this year but look at what Haye has accomplished in the last six months. The action level is not even close.

Yes, Haye has given us a LOT of great action during the past six months!

[knn]

Yes, Haye has given us a LOT of great action during the past six months!

I think by "what Haye has accomplished in the last 6 months" he means that Haye managed to break his back during a shadow boxing session.

[Dubious-Dutch]

Can't wait for this fight.

[knn]

I just got bad karma by Dave Redo for post #166

"Moronic post by a ridiculous nuthugger"