Tyson vs Lewis Primes

[The Noose]

Tyson has a punchers chance and was a furious puncher as I said but I just can't see him beating the best of Lewis, not on his best day. Lewis' jab would control the fight and after the initial barrage by Tyson early on, Lewis would control the mid to later rounds and KO Tyson by the 10th or 11th.

This is the way i see it.

A lack of concentration will allow u to get hit, but a lack of chin will get u KO'd.
Lewis got KTFO twice, hurt by Briggs and Bruno, and even dropped for a second by Akinwande.

Lewis took 8 rounds to get rid of a tired, shot Tyson who wanted to quit in the rounds before.

Lewis was big enough, boxed well enough but would get caught early (in the first 6 rounds), by either one big shot, or a combination and go to sleep.

I cant imagine Lewis not getting hurt by a prime Tysons fast, power shots.

In the first round of their fight, Lewis hung on, and was backing off with his hands too low to survive against a prime Tyson. He had to wait for Tyson to slow down. A prime Mike would KO him in the first 6.

[Joeyzagz]

I don't understand why people keep confusing prime with age. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it. Hopkins peak age was around 36, Archie Moore's was around 39, Lewis's was around 35, Ali's was around 25, and Tyson's was around 22. Lewis at 22 was not yet anywhere near his prime, and he hadn't even turned professional then. Tyson's prime ended when he was 22.

And we've covered this ground so many times in this thread already, doesn't anyone read the other posts before posting themselves?

Lennox Lewis was not in his physical prime at 35. He was smarter at 35, he had the ring experience and intuition at 35, but he was past it physically and used his boxing ability to defeat opponents. If you want to see a prime Lewis, look at the 1992 fight with Razor Ruddock. Lennox had incredible hand speed for a big man and was a savage KO artist.

What about Razor Ruddock he wasn't scared of Mike was he? Mike beat him twice if I am correct....Homes called out tyson and was bigger then him much more experienced and Tyson beat him right? Those guys you mentioned besides Douglas / Lewis were all Journey men at the end of Mike's carrer. Mike didn't want to fight but had no other way to make $$$. We are talking about prime for prime right? Tyson wins that match in my book.....Lefty

Ruddock may notve been a coward, but he did not have the same ballsy approach that Douglas and Danny Williams had. I would like to ask you why Mike Tyson never bothered to avenge that loss to James Douglas. Was he scared?

Lennox avenged his 2 losses so there are no lingering doubts about him. Lennox knew in his heart of hearts that he was better than Rahman and Oliver Mcall. Tyson on the other hand had built in doubts in his mind over ballsy big men. Cus Dmato told him that he would never win against a George Foreman type which is true IMO. Tyson saw Douglas as that guy. Lennox is a stronger, bigger, smarter and more consistent version of James Douglas and he wouldve been Tysons worst nightmare if they both met at their best.

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

Lennox Lewis was not in his physical prime at 35. He was smarter at 35, he had the ring experience and intuition at 35, but he was past it physically and used his boxing ability to defeat opponents. If you want to see a prime Lewis, look at the 1992 fight with Razor Ruddock. Lennox had incredible hand speed for a big man and was a savage KO artist.




Ruddock may notve been a coward, but he did not have the same ballsy approach that Douglas and Danny Williams had. I would like to ask you why Mike Tyson never bothered to avenge that loss to James Douglas. Was he scared?

Lennox avenged his 2 losses so there are no lingering doubts about him. Lennox knew in his heart of hearts that he was better than Rahman and Oliver Mcall. Tyson on the other hand had built in doubts in his mind over ballsy big men. Cus Dmato told him that he would never win against a George Foreman type which is true IMO. Tyson saw Douglas as that guy. Lennox is a stronger, bigger, smarter and more consistent version of James Douglas and he wouldve been Tysons worst nightmare if they both met at their best.

Well thought out post but not true Douglas did not put fear in Tyson. Tyson lost the fight and was going to rematch him but instead got caught up in a **** charge and Douglas opted to fight Holyfield in his first title deffense and Holyfield Ko'd Tyson boing history my friend read up on it. Everyone at that time wasn't concerned with a Tyson Douglas rematch once he caught the **** charge and Holyfield Ko'd Douglas. They wanted to see the Tyson -Holy match up before Douglas beat Tyson and after it too. It just never happened because Iron Mike went ot jail. I go with my 1st instinct and a point made by a poster you neglected to replie too Tyson would have cracked Lewis chin in 5-6 rounds tops...Lefty

[Benny Leonard]

Soir;5372358]Lennox Lewis was not in his physical prime at 35. He was smarter at 35, he had the ring experience and intuition at 35, but he was past it physically and used his boxing ability to defeat opponents. If you want to see a prime Lewis, look at the 1992 fight with Razor Ruddock. Lennox had incredible hand speed for a big man and was a savage KO artist.

Agree with that.

Ruddock may notve been a coward, but he did not have the same ballsy approach that Douglas and Danny Williams had. I would like to ask you why Mike Tyson never bothered to avenge that loss to James Douglas. Was he scared?

Lennox avenged his 2 losses so there are no lingering doubts about him. Lennox knew in his heart of hearts that he was better than Rahman and Oliver Mcall. Tyson on the other hand had built in doubts in his mind over ballsy big men. Cus Dmato told him that he would never win against a George Foreman type which is true IMO. Tyson saw Douglas as that guy. Lennox is a stronger, bigger, smarter and more consistent version of James Douglas and he wouldve been Tysons worst nightmare if they both met at their best.

Ruddock didn't have fear of Tyson. It was when he started to get hit that he became cautious like the rest. Ruddock started to pick his shots carefully. The version of Tyson that fought Ruddock was at least in somewhat solid condition and had some motivation unlike the version that fought Douglas. But it was even pointed out by Ferdie Pacheco that Tyson wasn't fighting the same anymore.

Rematch with Douglas: Tyson always asked for that rematch but Douglas never gave it to him. I heard the offer was upwards of 20 million and Douglas didn't take it. But, credit for Douglas for holding out for a reported 24 million against Holyfield; same fight he cashed out in. But I still think a unified Champion deserves a rematch.

It's not as hard to stand up to a guy in piss-poor shape that doesn't want to be there. Put a man that is in shape and wants to be there, and you can have a different fight. Look at the difference between an in-shape and motivated Douglas against Tyson vs. the fat slob that showed up against Holyfield.

You know Oliver McCall said that it was Douglas that was his toughest fight. He also said that Douglas hit him harder than Lewis.
That's something to think about.

And the Danny Williams fight...are you serious?

That's like me saying I always knew a slick boxer would destroy Ali....like Holmes did. Not just beat him, but destroy him. Holmes, like Spinks and Berbick, didn't buy into Ali's myth and mouth so they whooped him.
But that is nonsense.

[Benny Leonard]

You need to watch that video again. The referee was pulling Holmes' mouthpiece out within a second of him hitting the canvas and he had cornermen all over him well within the 10 seconds a referee could count. As for what would happen if he HAD gotten up I already addressed earlier: I said very plainly that Larry would have gotten seriously hurt.

Poet

First, I never heard Larry complain about it and Larry complains about a lot of things.

And now to the video:

What's your count?

This is what I see....

Holmes hits the canvas at {Time} 7:21.....he is on his back, lifeless, eyes shut...ref is on top of him and takes out his mouthpiece...at {Time} 7:30, his people are now near him and get on their knees...Holmes still out and no attempt to get up. Nobody is holding him down. They are now lifting up his head to see if he is alright. Holmes makes no attempt to get up. If he wanted to get up, he could do it by rolling to his side and lifting himself back up...he doesn't; he can't. He continues to stay on the ground. Nobody is laying on top of him to hold him down. They are in his way but he is making no attempt to get up. Even at 7:56 when they start to lift him up, look at his eyes and his body...he's not all there. HE WAS NOT MAKING THE 10 COUNT.

If he did somehow jump up at 9...he would have been in the hospital because he was not just going to be dropped for 10...but out like Roy Jones Jr and Ricky Hatton.

[Benny Leonard]

The point is, though, that a prime Holmes wouldn't have been hit by that many flush shots in round 4 or any round for that matter. A fighter is considered past prime when his reflexes start to slide and while that has an impact on a lot of what a fighter does its biggest impact is on the ability of a fighter to avoid punches.

No, he probably wouldn't have been hit that much...but a point Atlas was making was that Holmes was always vulnerable to someone like Tyson because of Tyson's speed, accuracy, and timing and that Mike (at his best) could time and capitalize on someone like Holmes who had a tendency to drop his left.

How many times did you see a prime Holmes get tagged REPEATEDLY by right hands in fight? I certainly can't recall any. To say a fighter is particularly susceptable to a punch would indicate that fighter getting tagged repeatedly with it not just one instance. This is similar to people going on about how a prime Ali was vulnerable to left hooks because Henry Cooper tagged him with one ONCE in their first fight.

Poet

One of the BIG advantages Ali and Holmes had was fighting Heavyweights....Heavyweights that are plodders and are not particulary fast. This is when Tyson makes up the difference with his speed, accuracy, combination punches, etc.
Even his size/height, can play to his advantage.

It wasn't just Cooper that knocked down Ali/Clay... Sonny Banks also did it. Banks had the SPEED and combination punching to bother Ali. Banks wasn't some lumbering Heavyweight. And Clay got caught in the exchanged while both were punching.





Even Doug Jones made Ali miss.

That's not for you...that's for anybody else that brings up that Ali would have hit Tyson with every punch and Tyson wouldn't be able to get out of the way and be knocked out by 8.

[Bram]

After they fought I tink Tyson admitted himself that he could have never beat Lennox. . .

I agree with him

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

After they fought I tink Tyson admitted himself that he could have never beat Lennox. . .

I agree with him

No it is the other way around Lennox admited that he could have never beat Tyson back then he said....Lefty

[Benny Leonard]

I make a much more compeling argument than you easily. I wasn't matching him up man to man, I was matching him up style wise to the type of fighter that gave Tyson problems.

If you think that my opinion is crap, then why bother with an intelligent debate?

Lewis we all know, fought to the level of his opposition. His major flaw was taking people too lightly. The way he did with Oliver McCall and Rahman. In the rematches though, when focused, he destroyed them.

Tyson has a punchers chance and was a furious puncher as I said but I just can't see him beating the best of Lewis, not on his best day. Lewis' jab would control the fight and after the initial barrage by Tyson early on, Lewis would control the mid to later rounds and KO Tyson by the 10th or 11th.

He took Rahman lightly; I'm not so sure about McCall. Emanuel said he picked up a flaw in Lewis and trained McCall to capatilze on it and that he did. And for the rematch....eh...McCall was a walking mess going into that fight. It's not hard to tell either.

One of the things I read in an interview with McCall was that he said Douglas hit harder than Lewis. We also have Holyfield saying that the one weapon he was basically cautious about was Douglas's jab which he knocked down a man with. Put all that together, and factor in Tyson's shape for that fight....the beating he took with flush shot after flush shot landing....I think Tyson going the distance isn't unheard of against Lewis...especially a trained Tyson that can avoid being punched and punch back.
Lewis also tended to be a cautious fighter himself and if he is fighting a trained Mike Tyson....he may very well have been cautious.
If he unloads, that leaves him open and when open, Mike could make him miss and counter hm with something hard (in combination as well).

This fight could have many outcomes in my opinion and it's hard to pick a winner.

For tall fighters against Mike: Everybody was taller than him and the majority out-weighed him as well.

When we look to the Smith fight, Smith didn't want to fight and played defense all fight. He wouldn't open up. It was also a fight when brought up, it's funny to see Mike's reaction. Tyson needed his opponent to opponent up. When a fighter opened up, it left an opening...an opening that Tyson can make you miss when you threw and counter with an attack through the window onto the target. You play defense and Miss grabby...and Tyson has trouble...even frustrates him.
Tyson also managed to out-jab a 6'5 Tucker who had a fast sharp jab himself and a nice reach. Not bad for a small man with a small reach.
Tucker also liked the clinch game...but lost a UD to Tyson.

[CiganoBoxer]

Lennox beat better men than Tyson did !
how many loses did Tyson avenge??
how many loses did lewis avenge ?

Love Tyson but Lewis was a far better fighter against better opposition ! FACT !