Who has more in ring skills and boxing IQ? Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzahe?

[Welter_Skelter]

Oh yeah, especially when you consider the state of judging in boxing.

I have never denied Joe is talented and world class, but when his ex's come on here talking about him being the best adaptor in boxing, I say two things.

1) Against Who?
2) What adaptions is he making?

Hopkins,Kessler and Bika are 3 fights that jump to mind.. where Joe.. was not doing too well.. adjusted and won..

In Bika's case.. Joe had to stand back and Box.. once he realised Bika was tough as nails..

against B-Hop.. he simply upped his out put.. the only way it seems to beat Hopkins is to out work him..

Against Kessler.. he started to use angles and his southpaw jab to change things after getting outclassed for 5 rounds..

[BrooklynBomber]

I dont like using Joe's victory over hopkins as a reference, but I got to say that both guys know exactly what to do in the ring to achieve the win. However, knowing and being able to are two big differences.

[Benny Leonard]

Hopkins,Kessler and Bika are 3 fights that jump to mind.. where Joe.. was not doing too well.. adjusted and won..

In Bika's case.. Joe had to stand back and Box.. once he realised Bika was tough as nails..

against B-Hop.. he simply upped his out put.. the only way it seems to beat Hopkins is to out work him..

Against Kessler.. he started to use angles and his southpaw jab to change things after getting outclassed for 5 rounds..

I think it also helped that Hopkins was running out of gas. Hopkins started conserving his enery a lot more after Tito...or maybe I'll add a couple of fights and put it towards Allen in their third meeting. I remember Allen saying that Hopkins had declined as a fighter...even saying his power declined from their previous two meetings.

But who knows what happens with those two at their best.

I just think Calzaghe at that point had more left (especially in the gas tank) than Hopkins at that point.


Calzaghe does adjust as well though. But I wonder how well he could adjust if put in front of a fighter that can also adjust. I'm not sure Kessler is really a fighter to adjust that well...although I admit I haven't watched his whole career.

[Spacey1991]

IMO Hopkins, I think the only thing that really beat Hopkins was his own fitness at that age and Calzaghe's work rate (you could tell Hopkins was tired that's why he faked low blows, probably because of the work rate).

The thing is though, nobody can really beat Hopkins convincingly, Calzaghe beat him in the only way he could by work rate... there was no other way for him to win, that's why he looked bad doing it.

[BrooklynBomber]

Hopkins's main success in his fight with Calzaghe was that he was not letting Joe adopt to him too much, by not engaging consistently. He learned his lesson well from watching the Kessler fight where Kessler had some good success in earlier rounds, but by attacking and engaging too much with Joe Mikkrl let him adopt and time him. Hopkins did not let Joe do that.

[Technical_Skill]

Hopkins,Kessler and Bika are 3 fights that jump to mind.. where Joe.. was not doing too well.. adjusted and won..

In Bika's case.. Joe had to stand back and Box.. once he realised Bika was tough as nails..

against B-Hop.. he simply upped his out put.. the only way it seems to beat Hopkins is to out work him..

Against Kessler.. he started to use angles and his southpaw jab to change things after getting outclassed for 5 rounds..

Agreed on some of these although this hardly makes him the best adaptor in boxing, as was implied earlier.

Juan Manuel Marquez, Floyd Mayweather Jr are two fighters straight off the bat that are better in that dept than calzaghe.

Secondly look at some of the names you mentioned, Bika? , Kessler is unproven, and your right against hopkins he threw a **** load more punches which didnt land, but thats more to do with dumb judges than how great he is.

See, ive never doubted joe is world class, i picked him over hopkins, kessler and lacy, BUT his boyfriends always have to take it that one step further, saying he's a top 50 atg, the best of his era, would have beaten the greats in their primes and ****, thats when it gets nasty.

[Chr0nic]

did you ever read about armstrong and how it took him 10 round of fast shadowbing BEFORE a fight for him to get warmed up and go another 15 rounds?
joe calzaghe has great stamina(like armstrong but probabley not as much)
maybe people with high stamina take longer to warm up which would explain calzaghe gettin owned in the first few rounds of his fights

[Smokin'J]

Calzaghe, he's the best at adapting to his opponents and he makes proper adjustments too, its not like he gets desperate and throws a zillion windmill slaps hoping the judges will give him rounds on workrate.

[bsrizpac]

did you ever read about armstrong and how it took him 10 round of fast shadowbing before a fight for him to get warmed up and go another 15 rounds?
Joe calzaghe has great stamina(like armstrong but probabley not as much)
maybe people with high stamina take longer to warm up which would explain calzaghe gettin owned in the first few rounds of his fights

wow.............

[Pullcounter]

did you ever read about armstrong and how it took him 10 round of fast shadowbing BEFORE a fight for him to get warmed up and go another 15 rounds?
joe calzaghe has great stamina(like armstrong but probabley not as much)
maybe people with high stamina take longer to warm up which would explain calzaghe gettin owned in the first few rounds of his fights

if calz knows he needs 10 rounds to warm up, why not do enough warm up exercises to get warmed up?

calz always fails in the first few rounds because he actually thinks he's a good technician and tries to box.

calz would be better served to just start windmilling like an amatuer right off the bat.