If pacquiao keep proving people wrong, how come he still has doubters?

[MANGLER]

I doubt him against prime WW's. Beyond that, Pac is solid.

[darn]

He's a good fighter, an exciting fighter, a strong no. 2 pound for pound.

gayweather jr is not even worthy to number two spot. a coward fighter like him should never be included even in top 20 p4p list

[Mrs._Pink]

He proved people right twice against JMM.

[talip bin osman]

is it because people would rather give an excuse that they are wrong than to give credit to a fighter they doubted?

an unknown fighter from the far-east who beats HOFs & superstars to become a HOF & superstar himself will be put under some tough scrutiny by some people who are not used to seeing such thing...

[Benny Leonard]

yes. but fighters fight like once every six months now. not like in the old days. so they are expected to be in top shape. they are expected to know their opponents.

that's why i still give credit to pac beating oscar. cause boxers are supposed to be in top shape coming to their fight. if he was not, then it means he's not as good as a boxer than people think.

training and preparation is part of the game. if dlh miscalculated his weight, then that's a flaw. like a glass chin or a weak punch.

dlh "would have beaten pac" at this weight or any other weight doesnt really mean much to me. cause what happened was pac beat dlh. period.

Yes, of course, it is Oscar's fault at the end of the day and he miscalculated and got greedy...so that is a hit against him and points to Pac's entire Team since this is a "Team" sport when we judge it overall even though the leader is the fighter...which then lies on the fighter, Pac, for accepting the fight with Oscar at 147 where Oscar could possibly show up flat/drained/dead by fight-time and that says something about him. I do actually think it was Freddie but it would go on Pac as well like you bring up.

However, the point that has been discussed was if Oscar was at his best?
If we judge the Oscar Pac fought and Floyd fought...which one was healthier and better?
Or, if we stick with WW/147, was the version of Oscar Shane fought better than Pac's?

You see, History tells us who the Winner and Loser is but a good history book also goes into detail as to why and runs down a list of reasons and comparisons.

Ali lost to Berbick, but was that the same Ali that fought Williams or even Frazier or Foreman?
Ali lost to Frazier, but was that the same version that fought Williams?

Pac was knocked out twice but was Pac at his best even though he was old and shot?
Or when he lost to a Past Prime Morales....well, OK...Pac was in his prime so cross that one out.


When Parmenion suggested to Alexander to attack the Persians at night (because the Persian army was so big compared to Alexander's)

"I will not steal a victory." The end and perfection of our victories is to avoid the vices and infirmities of those whom we subdue.
Alexander the Great
from Plutarch, The Lives of the Noble Grecians and Romans, 'Alexander'

[pbftxrs316]

fraud gayweather jr is a very coward fighter, he's always saying that he is the best fighter and the greatest, if he wants to be called the best why not fight fighter at his own weight class (welterweight division) like shane mosley or miguel cotto? why on earth did he choose smaller fighter like JMM? simply because gayweather jr is afraid to face the two welterweight fighters.. because he himself knows that if he fight them, mosley and cotto would certainly break his skull and eat him alive. SHAME on him. people won't be surprised if after the fight with JMM he will be calling ivan calderon. people like him has no place in boxing.

we actually had decent posts to this thread until you came along and once against proved, like people do on here everyday with posts like these, that you have no substance in your logic...aboslutely none...it's a shame really...

now, on to bigger and better things...the reason i feel pac still has doubters is because of how he was tested and looked aginst fighters like marquez and morales, their 1st time around...i feel people really do believe him beating oscar was because of oscar being weight drained...it was an amazing feat for pac though...he jumped up 2 weight classes to fight him. and he dominated him...like someone else posted earlier, fighting a fighter out of his prime means really nothing to me either...fighters do train for many weeks to get ready for their fights...george foreman beat michael moorer by knockout when he was waaaaay out of his prime physically...but he had the mentality to put him away...what does that mean to me? that if a fighter trains like he should ala floyd mayweather and benard hopkins, a so called "out of his prime" fighter isn't really that so much...hopkins beat pavlik at age 42. pavlik moved up 10 pounds to fight him i know, but hopkins was age 42. what does that tell me? that he prepared like truly great fighters are supposed to and he was the better fighter that night...that is a testament to hopkins, not really an insult to pavlik who is a very good fighter...

my point is manny beating oscar is a testament to him being a great fighter...beating a guy who has only been knocked out once by a bigger man, and manny being the smaller man just goes to show you manny's skill in that ring...oscar has been "out of his prime" since he fought vargas, yet, he beat vargas...just like with roy jones...he got knocked out 2 times in a row and people used excuses for him...but, he was the one who just met his match...weight may have had something to do with it to a degree but that was his choice to fight tarver after ruiz, when he should have faced him before ruiz. then roy loses to calzaghe by domination...was that a roy out of his prime...the same roy who says he can't be stopped...i mean, he knocked joe c down in round 1...joe c just adjusted to roy and found a way to dominate him...that is a testament to joe, not roy...he was the better fighter that night...being out of your prime physically comes with age, i know this, but this is why i always say, great fighters who are great thinkers in that ring know how how to beat fighters in prime, physical condition...skills do pay the bills in this sport...thinking fighters like hopkins, mayweather jr, joe c, and even foreman, will all do well out of their "prime". pac beat oscar because he was better than oscar...period. he beat hatton because he was better than hatton...period... just like oscar beating vargas...he was better than vargas that night...period. that is a testament to oscar's skills...

what i don't get however is the knock on floyd doing this...people who claim that floyd cherry picks his opponents as if oscar de la hoya at 154 is a cherry pick fight... as if hatton, who, whether people admit it or not, was a dangerous threat to him, especially after watching 24/7...people, many fans, critics, and other fighters picked hatton to upset floyd...they claimed floyd runs too much...uses too much defense...lol...i laugh at that nonsense, because you tell me how this man was lightyears ahead of every other fighter in boxing when he came to the punch and avoiding punch ratio(whatever the real name of it is). floyd was dominating that stat, dominating...meaning, not only was his defense astonishing(he took the least punishment in the sport...and that's saying a lot seeing how many of his fights went 12 rounds), his offense was just as great...his accuracy was amazing...his ability to think in later rounds was amazing...his ability to read his opponent, their movement, body language, shoulders, etc was brilliant...again, this is a testament to this man's skillset...because when he beat a "prime" coralles...he dominated him from round 1 to round 10, keeping his landed punches on floyd to single digits every round...that's a brilliant fighter for you...so, floyd fights oscar at a weighclass that oscar had been at before, even though his outing was shortlived, he had success there...but, because oscar wasn't knocked out and put up a worthy effort against the pretty boy, floyd's win over oscar which he won a title from him is ****ted on by people on here. his win over hatton gets ****ted on...he fights baldomir, who had a linear title and a lot of momentum at the time over margarito whose name wasn't even mentioned in boxing, and floyd once again dominates him, from pillar to post, winning every round...people crack me up with this nonsense...people **** on floyd's career, yet pay homage to other fighters like cotto and pac, when they fought a few of the same guys floyd fought...de la hoya, hatton, sosa, corley, and judah...cotto wanted to fight oscar also...would he have been ****ted on for that? of course not. not on this forum, that consists of a bunch of kids who really don't know boxing...

cotto gets praised for knocking these guys out, and floyd gets hammered for just decisioning these guys? cotto fought judah after a judah layoff, but gets praised for it? hmmmmmm. pretty ****** logic if you ask me. but, this forum does have pretty ****** posters so to each it's own...cotto did fight mosley, quitana, and margarito, i'll give him that...but he also fought judah and urango and a contender...what was his resume like at 140?hmmm...he didn't want to fight floyd there...and floyd has been out if his "prime" physically since he left 140, but that goes to show you his brilliant thinking in that ring...he undying dedication in the gym to get him in the best shape he can be in, mentally, as well as physically...

many posters on here have retarted logic, that i know, but i can't just let it go, when one man is bashed(mainly because of his persona, not his actual achievements)(floyd), yet other men are praised...it cracks me up...

now, floyd comes back and fight jmm, for whatever reason, and he gets bashed because he didn't fight mosley or cotto or whoever else at ww. floyd jr. is the best of his era, period...the most gifted fighter technically in the history of boxing arguably...pac is a great fighter, an all time great...these two have to fight...pac needs to just keep proving his critics wrong, just like floyd did...

[nelsoncm]

Pac's earlier career isn't that impressive. KTFO by Torrecampo. KO by Singsurat. He was very ****y when he was young. He struggled with Sanchez and the first Marquez fight after the 1st round was tough for him. Floyd would of whooped Manny bad when they were younger. Manny has done work to bridge that gap, but Mayweather is still clearly the better fighter.

Imagine Manny and Floyd switching places. Do you think Floyd has what it takes to get as far as Manny did without proper nutrition, proper training and proper trainer?

[thebowtod]

Imagine Manny and Floyd switching places. Do you think Floyd has what it takes to get as far as Manny did without proper nutrition, proper training and proper trainer?

dont forget about his age too

[pbftxrs316]

Imagine Manny and Floyd switching places. Do you think Floyd has what it takes to get as far as Manny did without proper nutrition, proper training and proper trainer?

ni fighter have what it takes without proper training and discipline...in any aspect of boxing...floyd'll be the 1st one to tell you this...

[Pharoahe]

It's because the nature of boxing says that there will always be some fighter out there that the people want to see the champion face. Until the champion beats that fighter, he's questionable. Cotto, Mosley and Floyd are those fighters at the moment, so people overlook the past fights and the quality of his resume.