The Manny/Floyd/Cotto Triangle (This Is An Intelligent Discussion No Huggers Allowed)

[The Surgeon]

do you see something i dont?

Clearly.....



Seriously i have laid this fight out in complete detail SO many times it bores me man.

Not being a **** but i cant be arsed, i'll pm u the punch for punch details another time dude.

[FMJ The Best]

The same way people have counted Pacquiao out against Hatton and Oscar.

Cotto received the same treatment when facing Zab and Mosley.

The whole, "they're too fast and too strong" arguement kept popping up.

Cotto did away with both of them.

Manny and Cotto are very similar in beating the odds.

His loss to Margarito really can't be taken all that seriously due to the circumstances.

[sandyvahra]

cool. we're on the same page just opposite sides of the spectrum (meshing those two analogies really doesn't work but whatever )

i think our disagreement stems from us rating Floyd/Pacquiao's respective legacies on slightly different levels... i have them closer together than you evidentally.

your B-Hop/RJJ point is certainly true, but i just feel for this particular case the two fighters in question are so close, and the head-to-head is coming at such a point in their careers, that it does pretty much complete the jigsaw and ultimately decide the greater of the two. the nature of the victory will also be taken into account i'm sure though

Totally. It's fathomable that regardless of outcome it could be such a great fight it enhances both guys (ala Leonard/Hearns).

Food for thought though, what would you peg the line at for that fight saying it comes off somewhere between 140-147. I'd think Floyd would be pegged about -225sh with Manny +175. Now, again odds wise I think it would be tighter if Floyd were to fight Cotto/Mosley at WW. The only fight I think Floyd would be a slight underdog in would be Williams at 147. Based on that I would think beating Manny wouldnt do as much for Floyd's legacy as fighting the other 3 guys. Just my opinion though, I'm sure people will say Mosley is past it etc, but at the end of the day the odds would be in his favour moreso than in Pac's favour.

[skullduggery]

Clearly.....



Seriously i have laid this fight out in complete detail SO many times it bores me man.

Not being a **** but i cant be arsed, i'll pm u the punch for punch details another time dude.

well ill say my peace..... floyd has an excellent strait right hand, a punch that cotto cant block for ****...... floyd also has great defense, and all kinds of other advantages that assure a win imo.

[Patheticfraud?]

Cotto is damaged goods after getting KTFO. Most fighters usually are.

[AntonTheMeh]

floyd mayweather jr = pure boxer(meaning outboxer, defensively oriented)
i can see him losing to both, and i can see him beating both.some posters are to quick to say so and so would be and easy fight for floyd.and that is absolutly bull****, when all you are doing is looking at a one fighters abilty and not looking at his opponents attributes, and what he would do vs floyd.
imo, a seek and destroy cotto (the one in the quintana for example, where he showed speed and assertiveness) would beat floyd. a patient, boxing cotto would lose an easy lopsided decision.he does not have the physical attributes to compete with floyd's speed in a chessmatch.

manny pacquiao=boxer puncher
( like cotto, can box and punch, and is a slugger/swarmer with better footspeed than cotto)

a manny fight would be a very close fight no matter what anybody tells you.
he has the southpaw stance, speed and punching power to trouble floyd.we all saw what hatton's footspeed did to floyd.add a non stop attack of speed and power, and floyd would have himself a war he could very well lose.


miguel cotto=boxer puncher

(can box and punch, and a bit slugger/swarmer minded)



a pacquiao fight would be like if the actual cold war went down.and incredible tactical war between two of boxing's most exciting fighters.
i believe that cotto has very similar ability to juan manuel marquez, only he's stronger and bigger than marquez.

pacquiao has alot of attributes that would trouble cotto, in his overall speed
and power.manny's defense is greatly improved as well; this fight would be a tad reminiscent of camacho vs rosario.

overall at this point (unless proven other wise by cotto in his next fight)
cotto loses to floyd, beats manny
floyd beats cotto, loses to manny
manny beats floyd, loses to cotto

[Chuckguy]

Cotto would be Pac (KO) and Mayweather (barely-SD)
the reason I think he beats mayweather is because he takes risk where Floyd Doesnt. Look what happened in the Oscar fight. Oscar chased him around took risks looked slow got popped but threw flurries that although replay show barely landed he still was the agressor and almost came away with a SD. Cotto is faster and stronger than that version of Oscar plus Floyd is Older.

Pac and Floyd Seems to be a great match and I go back and forth on the issue. I think gets KOed cause he wont see the check hook coming in the 11th rd and Floyd will have alot more energy being that he never uses too much and picks his spots and has awesome timing.

IN regards to legacy I think its true Pac edges out Floyd at this time but if Floyd comes through with one loss as he goes through the hit list
he can over take manny regardsless of lineal championships.

Lets not forget Baldo was the lineal champ and we all know how we feel about that.

[Spacey1991]

This is not going to be a hugging session for any one fighter, or even for more than one fighter. I am simply going to ask a question, and pre-empt your responses with my own brief thoughts. I hope you all understand that this is as much to attempt to answer the question in my own head as it is to create debate, or at least to provide a little more perspective.


In recent(ish) boxing triangles, it has often occurred that A beats B, B beats C, then almost counter-intuitvely, C goes on to beat A. It happened with Hopkins/Taylor/Pavlik, also with Hopkins/Jones/Tarver, and other examples that are well enough known to you all that I won't patronize you by naming them, or even attempting to, exhaustively.


As we as boxing fans all know, there is a massive outcry right now for Pretty Boy Floyd Mayweather to fight Manny Pacquiao. It's the one we all want. SC said somehting himself recently along the lines of "I don't care what else happens, what other fights are made, I just want to see Manny/Floyd"

There is also a hell of a lot of talk about Manny fighting Miguel Cotto. Cotto obviously has to go through Clottey first, but I am assuming he will, and I would be willing to bet that most other serious fans would agree with me. Aside from a fight which I somewhat ashamedly still have in my top 5 fights of all time, Cotto has never been beaten. Whether or not Margarito cheated in that fight does not take away from its majesty when considered all on its own; that was a truly great fight, from both men.

It may not be the popular thing to say, but I still watch that fight with a sense of awe. I digress.I do not want this post to turn into a debate about Toni, and I hope that will be respected. I only mention the fight at all to highlight Cotto, and his place at my boxing table. I said at the time that I did not feel Cotto should be discredited in any way for losing that fight, as it was a great war of attrition, a great spectacle, and only with hindsight can we retrospecively name it worthless. I do not believe it was worthless, it showed, whether Toni was cheating or not, the sheer class of Cotto, and even under that sort of duress and fatigue, he was awesome.

Anyway,I said this would not be a hugging session, and I will now attempt to refrain from that poor practice for the rest of this post.

Basically, my gut feeling tells me that if Manny fights Cotto, he will be beaten. I also do not subscribe to the idea right now that Cotto would beat Floyd. Yet although the logical reasoning is then to assume that were Floyd and Manny to sign up and lace up, Floyd would be too good for Manny.


This is my problem.


I really believe that Manny would beat Floyd.


Now, since Cotto is not a massive amount bigger than Manny, I cannot attribute my leaning toward him to that factor, and as far as all the other fundamentals go, Manny probably has the advantage. Yet I think Cotto beats Manny.


So, if this triangle were ever to materialize, which way do you see it going? I remember SC asking something similar a while back regarding Nate Campbell, Juan Manuel Marquez and one other. It may have even been Pacquiao, but I wouldn't be able to say with certainty.
I personally have it something like;

Pacquiao bt Mayweather SD-12 (I'm assuming this fight could be made at 143/144)


Cotto bt Pacquiao KO-9 (This fight would have to be at 147, since Cotto would never come down)


Mayweather bt Cotto UD-12 (at 147,obviously!)
I'd like others' thoughts on this, if possible, the more the merrier.

Just a short comment on the bold part, whether its made at 147 or 144 they will weigh the same on fight night.

The triangle theory thing, well who knows, we can't just expect it to happen but it could, we would have to wait and see if it would pan out like that.

But in honesty, the fight I now want to see if Floyd beats JMM convincingly is Floyd vs Manny.

[skullduggery]

i dont see how you rule out the possibility of floyd knocking cotto out..... floyd wins by late tko...... he beats manny in a ud...... floyd doesnt lose in the equation imo..... he just much better than both of those fighters

[Sutekh uvdabrix]

The same way people have counted Pacquiao out against Hatton and Oscar.

Cotto received the same treatment when facing Zab and Mosley.

The whole, "they're too fast and too strong" arguement kept popping up.

Cotto did away with both of them.

Manny and Cotto are very similar in beating the odds.

His loss to Margarito really can't be taken all that seriously due to the circumstances.

yes it can because he still fought the wrong fight plaster or no plaster