Manny Pacquiao is not top 10-30 all time...

[-EX-]

Refresh my memory, who are the two maybe three ATG's Foreman beat?

But getting back to the point, I don't think you can ever put too much on weight in a sport where our divisions/conferences are measured by it. Yes, his body grew into the weight..and? It's bad to grow? He's been a champ everywhere he's been. And yes, if you go up and fight bums it means nothing...why bring it up if it has nothing to do with Pacquiao? And YES, opponents matter--wasn't that what we were discussing? What happened?

Frazier and Ken Norton. And if Michael Moorer gets a nod maybe...

Yeah we were discussing opponents, you brought up the weight...lol

[Chups]

Pernell's resume isn't all that compared to those guys. Hearns lost plenty of his big fights.

You guys just haven't heard of Sandy Saddler and a few others...that's why your saying Pac is in the top 30...

You know that Saddler is the dirtiest fighter of all time right?

[IMDAZED]

Frazier and Ken Norton. And if Michael Moorer gets a nod maybe...

Yeah we were discussing opponents, you brought up the weight...lol

Ken Norton isn't an ATG. Neither is Michael Moorer. Wow.

And yes, I brought up weight while discussing opponents. Let's pretend they don't exist for a reason.

[-EX-]

Oscar wasn't a zombie that was an excuse that no one should buy. He just couldn't pin Pac, that's the reason 'he did nothing in there'. The little guy was too elusive, that's why you have Oscar holding the back of his head to get punches in.

Give me prime Oscar and it spells trouble for Pac. He could win but no way in hell would it be one sided...the Oscar that fought Mayweather was past prime as well. Which is why I don't consider it one of Floyd's best wins...

[FasTHarD]

Pac is the only fighter won 4 lineal world champion in diffferent divisions. When he retires he could be there at top 10 ATG.

[-EX-]

Ken Norton isn't an ATG. Neither is Michael Moorer. Wow.

And yes, I brought up weight while discussing opponents. Let's pretend they don't exist for a reason.

Ken Norton is a 1989 inductee of the World Boxing Hall of Fame...and he's also in the IBHOF

[dde91]

The man is a great fighter and has the opportunity to be the greatest of his decade but that doesn't place him that high on the all time list. For samples I looked at ESPN's list.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
18. Archie Moore
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern

I know some don't like this list but who on here that is notable to you outside of maybe Chavez(and he even has a billion wins) would you put Pacquiao ahead of?

And please, this thread has nothing to do with Mayweather cuz he aint in the top 30 either.

pac could easily be ahead of many of those guys, and you want to know why. HE IS/WAS the Lineal CHAMPION at 4 Weight Classes. That means he beat the BEst Champion at 4 Weight Classes. Nobody else in history has done that.

[m00ks]

If Pac was a grown ass man and moved up that much I'd be shocked. He was a teenager. His body hadn't finished maturing yet. And like some1 sed earlier Floyd around that age was fighting around that weight as well...so if he had turned pro he would have gone all the way to 154 winning belts!

Its not so much as he started as a flyweight as much as he WON A WORLD TITLE at that weight class. We're not talking about simply turning pro here. Yes his body was maturing but he had lineal championship at that weight, That's what makes lineal at 140 incredible.

[IMDAZED]

Ken Norton is a 1989 inductee of the World Boxing Hall of Fame...

Not everyone in the HOF is an all-time great.

[koboy]

In the end our opinions won't matter because time has a way of enhancing and embellishing legends or their performances and I am pretty sure the mainstream boxing writers of the present and the future will be kind to Manny.

Most of them will be swayed by the 6 world titles in 6 different weight classes and most importantly, the 4 lineal titles which no one ever has accomplished but Manny. Some already consider him top 5.

As for me, he is currently top 30. I actually became generous after the way he KO'd Hatton. If he won by UD, I would've placed him top 50 for sure.

If he takes another lineal, I would consider him top 5 - 10, at the very least.