You're A Fool If You Really Think.......

[warp1432]

There goes my point, idiot. Its not as much about the weight as it is about Floyd just being a better fighter. So the dude can beat Hatton at 140 yet Floyd at 144 is such a ***** for fighting him? He can beat the 2 best guys at 140 in Hatton & Pac but Floyd is a ***** at 144 for fighting him? You make no sense. The guy can kill Diaz at LW, beat Campbell, Hatton, and Pac at 140, yet Floyd is the *****? Its not the size its Floyd's skill. Sure JMM might lose a little something but again, its not like Floyd is at the top of his game. Your the same guy who thinks Floyd should fight guys like Cotto who are perfect at WW and huge while Floyd clearly looks slower and everything else you say about JMM. Except against Cotto, Floyd is outweighed in the ring by 15-20 pounds on top of it while JMM will only be outweighed by like 3 pounds. Its a joke what your saying yet you guys think you own me in arguments. Ill eat you guys for lunch any day. I love to talk and I took computer/typing classes so I cant type a million words in a minute. Thats why my post are so long. Now come back with your same weak response. You just dont want JMM to lose to Floyd and thats what it comes down to. Your trying to treat Floyd like he's Cotto or Margarito trying to fight JMM and he's not and you know it

Hahah man...I've never once called Floyd a ***** for fighting JMM. In my original thread it clearly says that I don't. There's a whole section addressing that...

Here's another thing, you are so quick to think that someone who disagrees with you is a Floyd hater of a JMM hugger. I've never once called Floyd a ***** for fighting JMM. It just does nothing major to enhance his legacy, which is your opening point.

Again, how does JMM lose so much skill by going up but Floyd doesnt? Floyd is the only guy in boxing right now who is fighting at the weight limit. Everyone puts on weight except Floyd so that tells you right there that he's not fighting at his best. Was Oscar at his best when he weighed 148 against Pac? What if Cotto only weighed 148 in the ring or any of the other WW's. Stop making excuses. If thats the case then what do you say about Pac? He looks like he's doing fine to me. JMM looked great against Diaz and knocked him out. He came in at a great weight yet you are so sure that he will look so different at 144? Come on now, you have to do better then that

Ignore the others, I haven't called you a Floyd hugger.

JMM loses skill because that's the way some fighters are. Moving up in weight doesn't suit everyone. It suits Floyd and Pacquiao.

Marquez can only move up so far. At 135, he went up to 140. At 144, he'll probably go up to 148 or so overnight. Let's say he's smart and weighs in at 140, he'll still probably going up to 145.

It may not seem like much, but it hurts him. He slows down and his reflexes aren't as good. Diaz was able to hit him a lot more then he's been hit. He had a hard time hitting him until he adjusted because Marquez, at 135, is a great fighter.

Marquez at 140, is not only unproven, but loses skill. Whether I think Marquez beats Campbell or Hatton, still doesn't change that fact. Marquez adds another name to his resume, but it doesn't really enhance his legacy like suggesting in this thread.

I'm certain he'll look different because he looks different from going to 126 to 130 and then 130 to 135. He'll look even more different at 140 or 144 where the fight will probably happen.

[warp1432]

Why doesn't he just come in at 140? Weight doesn't always win fights

No and another reason why it doesn't really help Floyd's legacy because everyone knows its a mismatch....JMM is a great fighter, but add the decreased skill of him when moving up (which is coming in at 140, unless you mean 140 fight night) and the non competitiveness of the fight, it's not ground breaking for his legacy. It's just a solid win, but nothing ground shattering.

When people first heard JMM say Mayweather's name, they dismissed it as a joke.

[DLT]

Hahah man...I've never once called Floyd a ***** for fighting JMM. In my original thread it clearly says that I don't. There's a whole section addressing that...

Here's another thing, you are so quick to think that someone who disagrees with you is a Floyd hater of a JMM hugger. I've never once called Floyd a ***** for fighting JMM. It just does nothing major to enhance his legacy, which is your opening point.





Ignore the others, I haven't called you a Floyd hugger.

JMM loses skill because that's the way some fighters are. Moving up in weight doesn't suit everyone. It suits Floyd and Pacquiao.

Marquez can only move up so far. At 135, he went up to 140. At 144, he'll probably go up to 148 or so overnight. Let's say he's smart and weighs in at 140, he'll still probably going up to 145.

It may not seem like much, but it hurts him. He slows down and his reflexes aren't as good. Diaz was able to hit him a lot more then he's been hit. He had a hard time hitting him until he adjusted because Marquez, at 135, is a great fighter.

Marquez at 140, is not only unproven, but loses skill. Whether I think Marquez beats Campbell or Hatton, still doesn't change that fact. Marquez adds another name to his resume, but it doesn't really enhance his legacy like suggesting in this thread.

I'm certain he'll look different because he looks different from going to 126 to 130 and then 130 to 135. He'll look even more different at 140 or 144 where the fight will probably happen.

I just dont see how you can think that the fight isnt bad but it does nothig for his legacy. To me thats a little contradictory. Again, this isnt a huge weight advantage and he's at the top of the P4P list so its not like those other fights.

If you want to say what you said in your 2nd paragraph then thats cool but guess what? Thats the same thing Ive been saying about Floyd for years. Its why I said that he shouldnt be forced to fight these huge guys that he's fighting. When Floyd went to LW, he came into the ring at 139, yet he still left after only 4 fights. He was the smallest guy at LW but he still moved up. He goes to 140 and comes into the ring at 144 and again leaves after only 3 fights this time despite being the smallest guy in the division. Now he's at WW and comes in basically at the WW limit on fight night but yet people think that he's a ***** if he doesnt fight Cotto, Williams, Margarito, and Clottey who have all weighed in between 162-170 on fight night. Its a joke. Your same argument is the one I always make for Floyd. Anyone can see that he's not as good as he would be at 140 or LW right now but he moved up so fast only to chase the big money big fame Oscar fight. If Oscar was a LW then Floyd would still be at LW right now and just finishing up his career at 140. He may have had 1 fight at WW or something just to see he got a belt. He's not big.

To me, I think people have to say that he's supposed to fight JMM & Pac or that he's not supposed to fight the big WW's. If you say that he's supposed to fight the big WW's then I dont think you can say much different about JMM fighting Floyd. If you say that Floyd shouldnt fight JMM then I dont think you should say that Floyd has to fight JMM because its basically the same situation. Anyways, like I told the other guy. Were not going to agree on this so we will just have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion and will keep it moving

[warp1432]

I just dont see how you can think that the fight isnt bad but it does nothig for his legacy. To me thats a little contradictory. Again, this isnt a huge weight advantage and he's at the top of the P4P list so its not like those other fights.

If you want to say what you said in your 2nd paragraph then thats cool but guess what? Thats the same thing Ive been saying about Floyd for years. Its why I said that he shouldnt be forced to fight these huge guys that he's fighting. When Floyd went to LW, he came into the ring at 139, yet he still left after only 4 fights. He was the smallest guy at LW but he still moved up. He goes to 140 and comes into the ring at 144 and again leaves after only 3 fights this time despite being the smallest guy in the division. Now he's at WW and comes in basically at the WW limit on fight night but yet people think that he's a ***** if he doesnt fight Cotto, Williams, Margarito, and Clottey who have all weighed in between 162-170 on fight night. Its a joke. Your same argument is the one I always make for Floyd. Anyone can see that he's not as good as he would be at 140 or LW right now but he moved up so fast only to chase the big money big fame Oscar fight. If Oscar was a LW then Floyd would still be at LW right now and just finishing up his career at 140. He may have had 1 fight at WW or something just to see he got a belt. He's not big.

To me, I think people have to say that he's supposed to fight JMM & Pac or that he's not supposed to fight the big WW's. If you say that he's supposed to fight the big WW's then I dont think you can say much different about JMM fighting Floyd. If you say that Floyd shouldnt fight JMM then I dont think you should say that Floyd has to fight JMM because its basically the same situation. Anyways, like I told the other guy. Were not going to agree on this so we will just have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion and will keep it moving

I think he has to fight more of the Welterweights because he was already champ there and Floyd is the one who proclaims he's the greatest of his generation, etc., etc.

Floyd is a lock for the hall, but he can still do a lot for his legacy that's realistic. I mean you are right when Floyd loses speed (not so much timing and defense like JMM does however) when going up in weight, but he has the defense to fight the welters.

Floyd right now has no obligation to fight the welters since he isn't the champ there like he was before, but it clearly helps his legacy. I think a Pacquiao win is just as big as a Cotto win, but Marquez is different because what I've pointed out.

The fight isn't bad because it's one a "tune up" to shake off the rust and it comes against a solid opponent. It just does nothing really huge for his legacy.

[DLT]

You can say what you want about speed and everything else because those are physical things but your intangibles dont change. Thats why I disagree with you about the D and timing thing. How does that change with weight. Floyd can go to MW right now and I think he will keep the same timing and D. No one will be able to hit him clean and he will time everything perfect like he always has. The problem is that Floyd can block the punch and guys like Pavlik & Abraham can still hit his guard and knock him out. I dont think that changes no matter where you fight, unless you lose too much weight and look like a zombie. Other then that it wont affect you. JMM's bad D has nothing to do with him moving up. He's just fighting better guys now. Diaz would hit him alot even if he was a Feather weight. Its just his style of fighting. I just dont beleive that you can say that his D is lacking now because he's moving up. I dont beleive that. and for his timing? I think he beat Diaz strictly on timing. His timing killed Diaz and I dont think that will change so much no matter where he fights

[warp1432]

Yeah, but at lower weights JMM had much better timing. It took him longer to figure out Diaz and Casamayor. At 126 and even at 130, his timing was better.

Also JMM's defense is worse because he's slower too. It's not with facing better guys because he got hit less by Pacquiao and Diaz is worse then Pacquiao, but Diaz hit him a lot more in the opening rounds.

[DLT]

Yeah, but at lower weights JMM had much better timing. It took him longer to figure out Diaz and Casamayor. At 126 and even at 130, his timing was better.

Also JMM's defense is worse because he's slower too. It's not with facing better guys because he got hit less by Pacquiao and Diaz is worse then Pacquiao, but Diaz hit him a lot more in the opening rounds.

You make it sound like Diaz & Casamayor are bums or something. Its not easy to figure those guys out quickly. 1st off Casamayor is a Southpaw and Ive seen alot of Southpaws hit JMM clean. Diaz is just a different type of guy who is pretty much going to hit 99% of the fighters alot. He knocked out 2 guys who no one can knock out so his timing had to be somewhat great. Also, speed doesnt always have to do with weight. Some of it is just him slowing some with age. Floyd is slowing some with age too and JMM is older. Also, I disagree about the Pac-Diaz stuff. To me it was just 2 different styles. Diaz is a combo guy who is going to bully you. He's always going to land more then most guys. Pac spent alot of time basically boxing with JMM. Diaz doesnt do that. He just goes at you and lets his hands go but you see that it also left him open to get KO.

Honestly, I use to be the biggest JMM fan in the world. I use to always think that he was better then MAB & EM back in the day and I loved them too. I remember picking Pac to beat MAB in that 1st fight. Then later came the show down with Pac & JMM and I remember everyone loving the fight but I came away really dissapointed in both guys. I was shocked that a brilliant boxer like JMM would get dropped 3 times in the 1st round by the same punch and was even more shocked how he let Pac hit him with the same punch the entire fight and this was back when Pac was one demensional. I was dissapointed in Pac because he dropped him 3 times but let JMM come back and how one deminonal he was. Even back then JMM was getting hit clean alot. In nearly all his fights he's bruised up even when he's fighting bums. Then I remember JMM figthing that other asian type guy who fought just like Pac and was a Southpaw. He was lighting JMM up and this was a while ago. Basically Im saying that his D has never been great to me. He's a beast on O but I dont think he's ever had an elite Defense

[warp1432]

You make it sound like Diaz & Casamayor are bums or something. Its not easy to figure those guys out quickly. 1st off Casamayor is a Southpaw and Ive seen alot of Southpaws hit JMM clean. Diaz is just a different type of guy who is pretty much going to hit 99% of the fighters alot. He knocked out 2 guys who no one can knock out so his timing had to be somewhat great. Also, speed doesnt always have to do with weight. Some of it is just him slowing some with age. Floyd is slowing some with age too and JMM is older. Also, I disagree about the Pac-Diaz stuff. To me it was just 2 different styles. Diaz is a combo guy who is going to bully you. He's always going to land more then most guys. Pac spent alot of time basically boxing with JMM. Diaz doesnt do that. He just goes at you and lets his hands go but you see that it also left him open to get KO.

Honestly, I use to be the biggest JMM fan in the world. I use to always think that he was better then MAB & EM back in the day and I loved them too. I remember picking Pac to beat MAB in that 1st fight. Then later came the show down with Pac & JMM and I remember everyone loving the fight but I came away really dissapointed in both guys. I was shocked that a brilliant boxer like JMM would get dropped 3 times in the 1st round by the same punch and was even more shocked how he let Pac hit him with the same punch the entire fight and this was back when Pac was one demensional. I was dissapointed in Pac because he dropped him 3 times but let JMM come back and how one deminonal he was. Even back then JMM was getting hit clean alot. In nearly all his fights he's bruised up even when he's fighting bums. Then I remember JMM figthing that other asian type guy who fought just like Pac and was a Southpaw. He was lighting JMM up and this was a while ago. Basically Im saying that his D has never been great to me. He's a beast on O but I dont think he's ever had an elite Defense

Oh no don't get me wrong, Casamayor and Diaz are excellent wins, but I think you can tell he's slowed down by going up in weight. JMM has showed more power at 135 which is weird, but power really isn't going to matter against Mayweather if he somehow keeps it at 144.

As for Jandeng-Marquez (the fight you are thinking of or Jimrex Jaca) and JMM also started changing his style to be more aggressive. He never had amazing defense, but it was better then it has been