David hayes critisism of wlad valid? (video)

[Jim Jeffries]

Mormeck was a good fighter who beat O'Neil Bell, an Undisputed CW champ (plus two wins over a 38 and 40 yo Virgil Hill, not too sure about those.) Just not sure the old, inactive version that Haye fought was anywhere close to prime and a stand alone tribute to Haye's "greatness."

If you want to say that Haye is higher on the ATG CW list than Wlad is on the ATG HW list, I absolutely agree. But being the greatest SMW ever isn't going to put Calzaghe on any top 50 ATG lists and CW and SMW are pretty close as far as baby divisions and level of competition.

[Fulcrum29]

Sadly, in this age of boxing, belts are accomplishments, they are the measurement by which a fighter is defined. Wins are simply a means to getting belts.

Hopefully that will one day be changed again and you may find yourself right, but not at this present moment.

I'm already right because belts are only abstract objects and have no power apart from what we give them with thought. Apparently YOU have failed because you give them much credence, I fortunately am above that and as such I have opened my mind to the truth and know that Wlad's resuem at HW is far superior to anything Haye did at CW or otherwise.

[.Mik.]

There you go talking about resumes again.

Belts, this abstract notion of a piece of metal signifying accomplishment is still what things get measured by these days. How many times was he a champion? How many times did he defend his title? How many divisions was he a champion in? These are the questions. Nobody ever remembers a great by asking the first question "What level of competition did he face on average?"

I'm not saying that I agree with it. I'm just saying that its a simple fact. You are looking at it from YOUR perspective, that of a seemingly educated and intelligent boxing fan. I'm looking at it from the wider perspective, that of your average man on the street, the average person who watches the fight on the TV or pays for the PPV. Not the one who comes on the internet to discuss boxing.

[Fulcrum29]

There you go talking about resumes again.

Belts, this abstract notion of a piece of metal signifying accomplishment is still what things get measured by these days. How many times was he a champion? How many times did he defend his title? How many divisions was he a champion in? These are the questions. Nobody ever remembers a great by asking the first question "What level of competition did he face on average?"

I'm not saying that I agree with it. I'm just saying that its a simple fact. You are looking at it from YOUR perspective, that of a seemingly educated and intelligent boxing fan. I'm looking at it from the wider perspective, that of your average man on the street, the average person who watches the fight on the TV or pays for the PPV. Not the one who comes on the internet to discuss boxing.

well good sir I would have to disagree with your assertion that people (presumably) in posterity reflect on the greatness of a fighter based on "how many championships" he's won or other such crap, I've never known a single person, ESPECIALLY a 'regular' Joe out on the street, that measures up a fighter in that way. In fact ask any normal poster here and I bet the vast majority of them won't know how many championships or defenses or any such thing that Ali or any of the greats had. Instead they measure the greatness of fighters in years past by who those fighters have fought, what the level of their competition was like, etc.

Most people don't know and don't even care how many "divisions" Floyd Mayweather has won belts in for example but rather focus on WHO he has fought and what the level of those opponents were.

[.Mik.]

Thats because you are using a recent example.

Go into the past a lot and the first benchmark of quality will be 'Was he a world champion?' Nobody asks who he beat to get it, nobody cares who he really defended it against, just whether or not he got the gold. I bet that the first thing on the list of Floyd's accomplishments is his belts and his undefeated record, not who he beat.

[PBDS]

I hope Wlad gets KTFO by Haye. So I don't have to sit through another one of his boring ass fights. F@ck throw something besides a jab.

....Well, you are 100% full of **** with your post but your little tiny sig rocks. Make it bigger or send me a bigger version via PM and will consider not turning you a bright glowing red.

[Jim Jeffries]

I hope Wlad gets KTFO by Haye. So I don't have to sit through another one of his boring ass fights. F@ck throw something besides a jab.

So Wlad has stopped 46 people with his jab? Damn, I knew it was good, just didn't think it was that good.