Who Defeated "The Boxing Formula?"

**Fulcrum29** · 04-04-2009, 10:19 PM

bubba bump shrimp

**Rockin'** · 04-05-2009, 01:03 AM

In my opinion there is no formula. Styles and strengths, not to mention weaknesses determine the outcome. There are hypothesis' of what beats what but when it all goes down you just never know. Thats actually a great thing about the fight game..................Rockin'

**Fulcrum29** · 04-05-2009, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Rockin'

In my opinion there is no formula. Styles and strengths, not to mention weaknesses determine the outcome. There are hypothesis' of what beats what but when it all goes down you just never know. Thats actually a great thing about the fight game..................Rockin'

well that's not true for the most part the formula plays out. There are obviously some exceptions to the rule

**Stab Judah** · 04-05-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Fulcrum29

well that's not true for the most part the formula plays out. There are obviously some exceptions to the rule

It's true but only up to a point more often than not it doesn't work out man.
There was just a thread about this about a week ago you should check it out.

**Ryn0** · 04-05-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Fulcrum29

well that's not true for the most part the formula plays out. There are obviously some exceptions to the rule

I think the rule may generalise to below championship level fighters but when you get to the elite and world class levels you have alot more to consider.

There are Boxer/Punchers who come forward, Boxer/Counterpunchers that move back, Swarmers that emply boxing into their game, some just don't fit into one catagory like Shane Mosley who can box and Brawl. There are Sluggers than work behind a game and bob and weave in to get to Pure boxers etc.

**Guest** · 04-05-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Ryn0

I think the rule may generalise to below championship level fighters but when you get to the elite and world class levels you have alot more to consider.

There are Boxer/Punchers who come forward, Boxer/Counterpunchers that move back, Swarmers that emply boxing into their game, some just don't fit into one catagory like Shane Mosley who can box and Brawl. There are Sluggers than work behind a game and bob and weave in to get to Pure boxers etc.

I agree with this post and would argue, to be elite you have to combine more that one style ala Juan Manuel Marquez, Pacquiao, Dawson, I mean every championship fighter has elements of many styles he has to employ while he moves up the ladder and when he fights other great fighters.

**The Texican** · 04-05-2009, 03:01 PM

I think the 3 rules are only relevant in picking a favorite before the fight takes place.

**HandSpeed303** · 04-05-2009, 03:05 PM

Who Defeated "The Boxing Formula?"

I think the are four things key to beating a great boxer.

1) Speed

2) high work rate

3) chin

4) plaster(joking)

4) being a decent boxer yourself.

**Allucard** · 04-05-2009, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Fulcrum29

As we all (should) know, the proverbial and quintessential 3 way boxing equation/formula tells us that:

1. swarmer beats boxer
2. boxer beats slugger
3. slugger beats swarmer

1. this is because the boxer needs room to maneuver and box and the swarmer negates his skills and stays in his chest/face. Examples of swarmers beating boxers are Lamotta vs. Robinson II, Hatton vs. Malignaggi, Duran vs. Leonard I, Margarito vs. Cotto.

2. this is because a slugger needs a target to come into him so that he can lay power punches on it and KTFO his opponent. Boxers dance around sluggers and beat them from the outside at range where sluggers are ineffective and useless. Examples of boxers killing sluggers is Lewis vs. Tyson (late Tyson was just a one dimensional slugger), Klitschkos vs. Peter, Mayweather vs. Gatti.

3. this is because a swarmer does exactly what a slugger prefers his opponent to do. Comes right into him so that the slugger can lay waste to them with power bombs and doesn't have to worry about being countered from a distance. Classic examples of a slugger destroying a swarmer are: Hearns vs. Duran (Hearns is obviously a rare "boxer-puncher" so not just a slugger, but the example is still apt I think), Foreman vs. Frasier, Mosley vs. Margarito.

Now I ask ya'll a discussion of fights where this classic formula did not play out due to the skills of one of the combatants.

I can name some.
Mayweather vs. Hatton. This is a classic boxer vs. swarmer matchup. The swarmer (Hatton) should have won on paper. Mayweather destroyed him.

Ali vs. Frazier. Classic boxer vs. swarmer again and the boxer should have lost.

Leonard vs. Duran 2. The boxer should have lost to the swarmer as he did the first time but he finally adapted a strategy that allowed him to win.

Same goes with Ray Robinson vs. Lamotta in the rest of their matches apart from the 2nd one.

Notice a similarity? It always takes someone of exceptional talent and pedigree to overcome the golden 3 way rule.

So what other ones can you name?

Good post. Well sometimes a swarmer is also a slugger (Duran, Marciano, Tyson). In fact most sluggers are also swarmers. But a very GOOD PRIME boxer can beat any swarmer OR a slugger 9 out of 10 times. Lewis-Tyson, Mayweather-Hatton. However is the very good boxer is even slightly out of prime he's going to be in trouble v someone like Duran or Marciano. Hearns vs Hagler is not really a good example (and i'm sure someone will mention that fight) because despite Hearns being a skinny tall guy (reminds you of PWilliams) he was a PUNCHER known for his punching power more than for his boxing ability. The Very GOOD boxer i mentioned is something like prime Mayweather or prime Roy Jones Jr. (counterpuncher version), ie someone who rarely gets hit and can fight on the inside, relying on inhuman speed to their advantage.

Who Defeated "The Boxing Formula?"