Sugar Ray Leonard's Wrong Game Plan Against Roberto Duran

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What Leonard has said and has become common knowledge is that Leonard fought the wrong fight against Duran, letting Roberto get into his head with his mental warfare, SRL wanting to prove his manhood, etc...and fighting too much on the inside and trading too much.

I agree to an extent, but I think Duran's footwork and pressure forced him to do so. While Leonard has gotten a reputation as this dancer, the only fights in which I saw him really dance on his toes and fight on the backfoot and move consistently, were the Duran rematch, and Hagler. Leonard was mostly a flat-footed boxer who circled, boxed behind his jab, in an extremely relaxed style, and opened up with quick devastating combos (and finishing hurt guys with the best of them). Duran was all over Leonard like Charlie Sheen on a whore. What do you do when the guy is all over you, swarming, on the ropes? You fight out. There were times when Leonard had success boxing and circling, and leaping in with brilliant lead left hooks on Duran's face. Eventually Duran would get to him though with his pressure and slippery moves and force him to fight.

While you can say that Leonard did fight the wrong fight, it's not as if he changed his style for this first fight. What made it the wrong plan is that he DIDN'T CHANGE HIS STYLE in Montreal. He changed his style for the rematch (Duran's party habits are another story) and fought the right fight that time.

Your actually correct. Ray in his biggest fights Beneitz, Duran one, Price, fought mostly flat footed. However, the thing you leave out, is that what made him so great, is that he had the ability to switch to the style that was necessary to beat his opponent.

In this first fight, he brieftly switched not to a full fledged dancing style but he used a little lateral movment in rounds 5-7 to get back into the fight, actually you see the first signs of Duran being frusterated with is lateral stick and move style, in this fight. I believe it was round 7. However you see duran start to mock ray foot work breifly, and motion to him to fight him.

It is that ability to switch styles which elevate ray to beat Duran, Hagler, Benetiz, hearns..and IMO makes him greater than all those fighters. The problem with the Duran fight is that he went back to slugging in roun 8. NO, duran did not force Ray to slug in this fight. All you have to do is review the tape, and you will not see anywhere, where duran cut off the ring, or you actually can see ray lay on the ropes the referee break them, and ray stay on the ropes and motion duran back in. Generally Ray even in fights where he is not dancing, when a referee breaks them, he would step out and behind the referee and out toward the center of the ring. This is a little trick learned while being an amateur. He never did this vs Duran.

Duran deserves all the credit in the world for THIS fight, as he beat ray fair and square. Ray does fight flatfooted and beats 99.9% of other fighters, but duran he did not beat fightin this style. Now 5 months later we see what happened when he decided to box duran.

[krispy kreme]

My apologies! I didn't meant to indicate that you were. That was poorly worded on my part.

Poet

No problem man.

[Fulcrum29]

I respect him for actually fighting in the first fight.

Leonard fought like a ****in coward in the second fight.

you post like a coward you pathetic dimwitted alt. don't be bitter that leonard owned duran and is the far greater fighter.

[TheGreatA]

Another myth is that Leonard was "dominating" Duran in the rematch. The fight was near even on the scorecards with Leonard having a slight edge by a point or two.

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Another myth is that Leonard was "dominating" Duran in the rematch. The fight was near even on the scorecards with Leonard having a slight edge by a point or two.

The machine again you show that you know nothing at all about loenard or duran or their fights. Ray was easily outboxing Duran, and the only myth was that Duran ***** ass had cramps.

Lets do a little math Mr. Machine. After 7 scored ounds ray was up 3 point on 2 scorecards I believe and 2 points on another. How after 7 rounds can a person be up much more than that, unless they have 10-8 rounds. You do the math. 6-1 = 5 pounts. 5-2 = 3 points. 5 rounds to two equals dominance if you ask me. How about how the 8th round was going until Duran quit. That would have made it 6-2 o or 5-2-1 etc.. Meaning Duran was nearing the point where he would have had to win the remaining rounds or most of them.

Lets examine the 1st fight if you will. The fight yoou and others try to portray that Duran Dominate leonard. Tell us the score of that, after 15 rounds. Was it 2 points duran, and 2 with Duran winning by 1 point. Didnt all give Duran a round (the 1st) in which he did not land a single head shot. So if I may. If Duran is not given that round, then Ray is 3-0 vs Duran. Hmmm
Furthermore, just to show how weak your arguement about duran is. Lets see after round 4 of the first fight. Ray won on or tied on almost every judges scorecard 7 of the last 11 rounds. So theory #1` smashed, Duran did not show an ability to close strong in the 1st fight, thus in the 2nd fight where he was getting humiliated I wonder how he would have done in that fight.

Also after the 1st 4 rounds of the 1st fight. Leonard owned Duran. winning 7 of the final 11 in that fight, according to the judges. 5 of the 7 scored rounds in the 2nd fight according to the judges, and on 2 judged scorecards he won 11 out of 12 in the 3rd fight.

Pretty much sums up their trilogy.

Now to go one step further. Duran was 1-2 vs leoanrd, 0-1 vs hagler, 0-1 vs hearns, 0-1 vs benetiz. All before the age of 33. His only victory ever vs a fighter rated on any top 100 pound per pound board was vs leoanrd and outlined thier trilogy, and keep in mind Ray willingly chose to abandone his boxing style.

Thus IMO Mayweather who would most assuredly fight Duran the way Ray did in their 2nd fight, would easily whip Duran, as even though i have ray being better than mayweather, Mayweather was a much better counter puncher, technical fighter, nd more elusive fighter.

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next thing we will hear machine and other duran follwers attempt to say is. well he moved up in weight to face these fithers. Hmm didnt leoanrd move up, mayweather move up, dlh move up, jones move up, robinson move up. Dont we consider their success and loses at the heavier weight.

Duran was already fighting welter for 5-7 fights before the leoanrd fight, and was only 28. The only loses I target on duran resume are before age 33.

Finally, other duran followers will say he won 65 plus fights at llightweight. I say, tell us about the quality of most of these fights, and why on 7 title defenses. Why was duran fighing fighters with record off 0-3, 10-12 AFTER HE WAS CHAMPION. Why if Duran is so great is his record 1-5 vs the top pound per pounder he fougth. Where are the greats he beat (great defined as ranked top 100 pound per pound on any credible list) at light weight, please dont list fighers like kyobashi who was 61-9-4 when they fought or marcel, who was 21-3 or somehting like that. Buchanon was good, but he was no legend. Sort of Like saying Ray leonard was a great legend cause he be Ayub Kalule. Hell Kalule was undefeated amateur and pro at the time, never been knocked down, but we dont rank Ray as a great for beating Kalule. It is becasuue he beat, duran, hearns, hagler, Benetiz. Why do duran fans give Duran such a pass.

OVERRATED!!!

[BattlingNelson]

I have always heard that Leonard wanted to 'macho' Duran in that first fight. Beat him at his own game. Still Duran fought a great fight and it was arguably Duran's peak. Beating Leonard is a giant achievement wheter he, Leonard, fought a smart fight or not.

I always hated Leonard in that second fight. That kind of showboating belongs in Rocky-films only IMO.

[Dynamite Kid]

What Leonard has said and has become common knowledge is that Leonard fought the wrong fight against Duran, letting Roberto get into his head with his mental warfare, SRL wanting to prove his manhood, etc...and fighting too much on the inside and trading too much.

I agree to an extent, but I think Duran's footwork and pressure forced him to do so. While Leonard has gotten a reputation as this dancer, the only fights in which I saw him really dance on his toes and fight on the backfoot and move consistently, were the Duran rematch, and Hagler. Leonard was mostly a flat-footed boxer who circled, boxed behind his jab, in an extremely relaxed style, and opened up with quick devastating combos (and finishing hurt guys with the best of them). Duran was all over Leonard like Charlie Sheen on a whore. What do you do when the guy is all over you, swarming, on the ropes? You fight out. There were times when Leonard had success boxing and circling, and leaping in with brilliant lead left hooks on Duran's face. Eventually Duran would get to him though with his pressure and slippery moves and force him to fight.

While you can say that Leonard did fight the wrong fight, it's not as if he changed his style for this first fight. What made it the wrong plan is that he DIDN'T CHANGE HIS STYLE in Montreal. He changed his style for the rematch (Duran's party habits are another story) and fought the right fight that time.

I agree.

Leonard tried to use the ring early and box, but he got countered. Duran came over the top of his left jab with a right hand and buzzed him slightly. From then on Duran got more and more into his stride whilst Leonard got more and more away from establishing any kind of rhythm.
Duran

Agree about "While Leonard has gotten a reputation as this dancer, the only fights in which I saw him really dance on his toes and fight on the backfoot and move consistently, were the Duran rematch, and Hagler"

Leonard ****** it out with Kalule, and Hearns to a degree, he was trying to beat Mayweather up, and he stayed very close to Donny Lalonde.

[TheGreatA]

The machine again you show that you know nothing at all about loenard or duran or their fights. Ray was easily outboxing Duran, and the only myth was that Duran ***** ass had cramps.

Alright.

Lets do a little math Mr. Machine. After 7 scored ounds ray was up 3 point on 2 scorecards I believe and 2 points on another. How after 7 rounds can a person be up much more than that, unless they have 10-8 rounds. You do the math. 6-1 = 5 pounts. 5-2 = 3 points. 5 rounds to two equals dominance if you ask me. How about how the 8th round was going until Duran quit. That would have made it 6-2 o or 5-2-1 etc.. Meaning Duran was nearing the point where he would have had to win the remaining rounds or most of them.

Scorecards after 7 rounds:

Mike Jacobs 66-68 for Leonard
Jean Deswerts 66-68 for Leonard
James Brimmell 66-67 for Leonard

This is what I said:

Another myth is that Leonard was "dominating" Duran in the rematch. The fight was near even on the scorecards with Leonard having a slight edge by a point or two.

That's all. Most of what your ranting has nothing to with what I said.

Lets examine the 1st fight if you will. The fight yoou and others try to portray that Duran Dominate leonard. Tell us the score of that, after 15 rounds. Was it 2 points duran, and 2 with Duran winning by 1 point. Didnt all give Duran a round (the 1st) in which he did not land a single head shot. So if I may. If Duran is not given that round, then Ray is 3-0 vs Duran. Hmmm
Furthermore, just to show how weak your arguement about duran is. Lets see after round 4 of the first fight. Ray won on or tied on almost every judges scorecard 7 of the last 11 rounds. So theory #1` smashed, Duran did not show an ability to close strong in the 1st fight, thus in the 2nd fight where he was getting humiliated I wonder how he would have done in that fight.

I have never said that Duran dominated Leonard. Please find where I've said anything of that sort.

Here's something interesting:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19800621&id=vqMKAAAAIBAJ&sjid=p0wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6643,1943196

"If I had to fight Duran again," said Leonard, "I would not change my style. I know I surprised a lot of people at how well I could punch and take a punch. But I fought the way I felt was best to beat Duran."

[TheGreatA]

I have always heard that Leonard wanted to 'macho' Duran in that first fight. Beat him at his own game. Still Duran fought a great fight and it was arguably Duran's peak. Beating Leonard is a giant achievement wheter he, Leonard, fought a smart fight or not.

I always hated Leonard in that second fight. That kind of showboating belongs in Rocky-films only IMO.

I doubt Leonard would've been as popular as he was had he fought everyone like he fought Duran the second time.

The fact is though that Leonard beat Duran and so did Duran beat Leonard. I'm tired of excuses from both sides, whether it be about Leonard not fighting "smart" or Duran having "stomach cramps" or whatever.