Why is Vitali so great?

[Chase8400]

It's been documented many times that a fighter can age in the ring within any space of time, including a year. The fight with Tyson happened exactly 12 months prior, and even by that point it wasn't a prime late-90's Lennox in that ring anymore (and luckily not a prime Tyson either, although I think he would've lost to Lennox at any point in their respective careers).

This debate has been done to death on all manner of forums as far as the eye can read, so I can't really say anything new on the matter other than that Lennox was pretty well past prime by the time of the Vitali fight (for which, IIRC, he hadn't done a whole lot of preparation or conditioning), and the VitMan was a young superstar in the making who was destined to go onto bigger things with or without a win in that match. He showed it on the night, he showed it 10 months later against Sanders, and he showed it last week against Gomez. Who's lost out? Absolutely nobody.

And finally, you hit the nail on the head with the quote I bolded from you, but I'll answer it with a question - why stand in front of a guy, in a rematch coming off a brutal and bloody 1st match, whom you know could end your career and possibly your life in the ring, when you're old and slow and about ready to go out on a high? The answer is, you retire and live a happy life.

Because nothing in that fight aside from conditioning seemed to hamper Lennox. He was just getting hit more than he ever had even though he was landing and throwing punches as well as he ever had. He just was across from a better guy that night. This is the just fight when everyone realized it. It was Vitali's coming out party.

I could see your point if Lennox was a 37 year old Roy Jones. But he wasn't and he showed no signs of deterioration at all in the fight. Had he been faded skillwise at all, he would have been KO'd by the time the fight had been stopped.

Of course, I respect your educated opinion. It's obvious that you know what you are talking about. We will just have to dissagree on this one.

P.S. Have you seen Australia the movie yet? It sounds like a beating coming from me probably but I thought it was a great movie and I was very excited to get to learn more about that magnificent country.

[mathed]

Allot of their opponents have had a comparable reach and have been able to do nothing with it. If I recall right Rahman and Gomez had a longer reach that the K-brothers and were beaten soundly.

As a matter of fact, 3 of Vitali's last 6 opponents had a longer reach than him. (Lennox Lewis having the longest of all)

At some point people must begin to accept what they are seeing.

Vitali is a legitimately dominating heavyweight.



I would agree with you, but in light of Vitali basically giving the last generations greatest fighter, Lennox Lewis his toughest fight and Wladimir losing 3 times by TKO, I have to decline.

Guys have had their chances and have simply not had enough to handle the brothers. Lennox included.

Vitali has no kinks in his armor and is a complete fighter, no matter how awkward he looks at times.

Wladimir is an offensive ring technician with the best jab and straight right hand in the division. (at least as good of a straight right as Vitali, I think)

They dominate for a reason and the competition is not the only reason why.

Maybe you are right and they just are that good. I still think that the HW division is weak, really weak- even Gomez's reach may have been longer it does not offset the height difference. He had to punch up at an angle to hit Vitali in the face which means he had to come in a few inches closer to land. This puts him right in the perfect position for Vitali's jab or counter right. I specifically mentioned the reach but it is more of a total size thing, I guess. They are almost always taller than their opponents and 95% of the time have a longer reach as well.

There has to be someone, currently active, that is the same height as them that could fight them that won't look like a dwarf in the ring who gives up.
The fights just aren't competitive to me and maybe it is because they are so skilled. It just looks to me like people get scared when in the ring with them or they give up.

That being said, they are the champs until proven otherwise, I guess.

[Chase8400]

Not granted. Everyone's idea of a perfect, "complete" fighter is totally subjective.

I'm nowhere near saying that Vitali is a perfect fighter.

But I do think he is the complete package. He doesn't lack in a single department. Especially the most important ones.

All in all, I don't remember seeing as complete of a heavyweight in a long, long time. Even when talking about Lennox Lewis the argument can be made that he cannot take an elite punch, whereas Vitali has proved that he can.

[PittyPat]

Because nothing in that fight aside from conditioning seemed to hamper Lennox. He was just getting hit more than he ever had even though he was landing and throwing punches as well as he ever had. He just was across from a better guy that night. This is the just fight when everyone realized it. It was Vitali's coming out party.

I could see your point if Lennox was a 37 year old Roy Jones. But he wasn't and he showed no signs of deterioration at all in the fight. Had he been faded skillwise at all, he would have been KO'd by the time the fight had been stopped.

Of course, I respect your educated opinion. It's obvious that you know what you are talking about. We will just have to dissagree on this one.

Probably best so. Although I know there are a lot of people who tend to think Lennox was at his prime or even "near his best" when Vitali was giving him a pounding, but for someone who's seen what the real Lennox was like in his prime during around '93-'00, it's clear to see that the man standing across from Vitali in that ring was an old, deteriorated, slow, blown up shadow of himself who was getting beats from a young puncher destined become a superstar regardless of the result of that night. Still gave him a hell of a fight, though.

Have you seen Australia the movie yet? It sounds like a beating coming from me probably but I thought it was a great movie and I was very excited to get to learn more about that magnificent country.

Not much of a movie-goer, myself. Rather more looking forward to John Cena's 12 Rounds, actually.

(Only cause his 'girl' in it is hot.)

[MANGLER]

Cats favor him over Wlad cuz he's tougher and more excitin, although Wlad is a lil better imo.

[Chase8400]

Not always. Blinking or not, Lennox and Sanders had him rocked (and running backwards, in the case of the latter) with good shots and he certainly didn't move out of the way of those fast enough. Iron chin and one of the best in the biz, for sure, but he caught a lot of those shots flush and they sounded golden.



No probs. Hopefully not on the level of certain nuthuggers around here, though. :wnk1: I mean, there's healthy fandom where one acknowledges the strengths as well as weaknesses of their favourite fighter in an objective manner...

... and there's downright unhealthy obsession with trying to discredit any faults they may have (and every fighter does; that's pretty much a given), and always disproportionately playing up their strengths.

It's impossible to even discuss anything with folks who fall into the latter category, but I can see that you're probably not one of them - otherwise, this would've descended into insults several pages ago. :laff2:

Outstanding observation.(bolded)I'm always civil until the crap hits the fan and then I can get brutal. I never start the mess but will be fast to respond when prompted. Allot of people on here have realized that.

Anyways, Jones Jr. is and always will be my favorite fighter of all time but Vitali is my favorite heavyweight. I can accept any flaws he has, I just cannot really see anything of consequence. The guy is a beast and does his thing no matter what happens in the ring. That's what makes him special IMO. Even the great Lennox Lewis couldn't get him off his game.

[Chase8400]

Maybe you are right and they just are that good. I still think that the HW division is weak, really weak- even Gomez's reach may have been longer it does not offset the height difference. He had to punch up at an angle to hit Vitali in the face which means he had to come in a few inches closer to land. This puts him right in the perfect position for Vitali's jab or counter right. I specifically mentioned the reach but it is more of a total size thing, I guess. They are almost always taller than their opponents and 95% of the time have a longer reach as well.

There has to be someone, currently active, that is the same height as them that could fight them that won't look like a dwarf in the ring who gives up.
The fights just aren't competitive to me and maybe it is because they are so skilled. It just looks to me like people get scared when in the ring with them or they give up.

That being said, they are the champs until proven otherwise, I guess.

Very objective post and I appreciate that. Everybody has an opinion and I respect that as long as they are plausable. Yours is , so cheers.

P.S. Valuev is bigger than either Klitschko but will not fight them. Maybe we can see how good they really are if they do happen to get him in the ring eventually, seeing as how he has the size advantage.

[oldgringo]

I really don't care about the resumes because the HW division sucks so bad. To me, it's about what I see in the ring. IMO Vitali simply is the better fighter and is more exciting to watch. Wlad comes off like a giant ***** that is extremely scared to engage and unwilling to give the fans what they want (a fight, or a little bit of action at least) whereas Vitali isn't afraid to get his hands dirty and fights inside, rough if necessary and throw combo's.

I wholeheartedly agree with this post. Vitali is generally much more willing to engage and more willing to step outside of his comfort box. When watching him, you don't get the feeling as if he needs everything to be safe before he attacks. Wlad seems like he has ruled out putting on a show for the fans all together.

The exact reason I enjoy watching Vitali fight and detest watching Wladimir. Brewster II, Ibragimov and Rahman fights were simply unwatchable.

[oldgringo]

Cats favor him over Wlad cuz he's tougher and more excitin, although Wlad is a lil better imo.

Maybe in terms of pure skill, but if you threw em in the ring together, you know who would win. It ain't Wlad.

[mathed]

Very objective post and I appreciate that. Everybody has an opinion and I respect that as long as they are plausable. Yours is , so cheers.

P.S. Valuev is bigger than either Klitschko but will not fight them. Maybe we can see how good they really are if they do happen to get him in the ring eventually, seeing as how he has the size advantage.

I was going to mention Valuev and why he did not fight them, I guess he has a reason of some kind.