Floyd Sr. : Says "Speed is Nothing but Timing"

[strugler]

It's not correct at all. I agree with you. Because before you know it you got hit by super quick punches that you don't even see coming. How can you time what you can't see?

yep i cant placed my finger at it a while ago, Anyway heres my take on it JMM gives pac nightmares because of his timing, He cant compete speedwise so he times his counterpunches to near perfection catching pac when pacs feinting punches.

Timing and speed isnt the same thing.
speed = amount of time to travel from point A to point B
Timing = a reaction to a given stimulus

Wasnt it Vernon Forest who said All you need is a jab to control speedsters?

[S A M U R A I]

You're right, it's Pac with the in and out movement, the ring generalship, the head movement, and the stamina. He has all the tools that Hatton needs. I'm just saying Floyd is right that Superior timing is how you beat speed. Hatton could win if he learned how to time Pac, which is something that has been done before, but I believe it is not in his ability. He may however win by wrestling the smaller man, and we also haven't seen Manny get hit by a lightweight, so Ricky is a pretty huge test. Again though, I am picking Pacquiao to win via TKO.

I agree with this post.



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[Spiegelo]

i agree with this post.

high five!

[Miburo]

They're separate, but related concepts. Timing can indeed overcome speed (see Arguello for the most classic example) but putting both together is best.

[S A M U R A I]

yep i cant placed my finger at it a while ago, Anyway heres my take on it JMM gives pac nightmares because of his timing, He cant compete speedwise so he times his counterpunches to near perfection catching pac when pacs feinting punches.

Timing and speed isnt the same thing.
speed = amount of time to travel from point A to point B
Timing = a reaction to a given stimulus

Wasnt it Vernon Forest who said All you need is a jab to control speedsters?

I'm not sure if it was Forrest. Nor am I sure if I agree with that theory! I'm not a fighter myself so obviously I can't give an opinion that holds much weight, but while you're jabbing -- unless it's a super fast and effective jab that isn't locked into a particular timing -- you're open to being hit with overhand shots. That's my take on it anyway. The only thing I can safely say with confidence is that I know a bit about rhythm, being a musician who plays drums! Myself, I'd just do triple paradiddles on people's faces if I was a boxer. Flams might work well, too. Ouch. (That's two hits landing very close together, a split second apart).



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[S A M U R A I]

^^ Thinking about that made me go looking for articles.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=22528

Anyone know any boxers who played drums? I would imagine that a great drummer could be a master of timing his opponent.

The mechanics of drumming are similar to the boxers form. Playing the ride cymbal or riding the hi-hat is akin to a boxer's footwork. They set up the flow and feel for both the drummer and boxer and are significant to the style of both. When I watch the footwork of Sugar Ray Robinson I can't help but think of Philly Joe Jones. Ray was probably the slickest boxer ever to enter a ring and Philly Joe defined "hip" not just for drummers but for all Jazz musicians. Ray's dazzling footwork and smooth combinations are much like the way Philly Joe combined rudiments into seamless musical statements. Philly's impeccable ride was as effortless as Ray's footwork, making everything on the bandstand poetry in motion. This concept can be seen among the heavyweights as the determined, ominous stride of Joe Louis is like the greasy, medium swing of Elvin Jones. Both Joe and Elvin are superhuman forces in their fields with Louis's punching power much like Elvin's "bashing" at peak level.

When a drummer plays accents or drops bombs I view this like a boxer's jab. The jab is the boxer's staple and must be timed perfectly to be effective. A drummer's accents also must be timed correctly and placed in just the right spot. Also the boxer doesn't want to be too predictable with his jab. If he bobs his head or drops his shoulders before he jabs, his opponent will pick up this signal and be able to retaliate with a well-timed counter punch. Consequently if a drummer drops bombs or resolves fills in the same place the music will become dry and predictable. In other words don't always jab on "one".

This quote from the article ties in with what I was saying about the timing of the jab and how to get around it -- it better not be a predictable rhythm, basically. This is why I disagree with Forrest's theory of the jab being the way to nullify a speedster. I has to be an offbeat and fast rhythm to be effective. If the speedy fighter has a good sense of rhythm and is somewhat syncopated (offbeat and quirky in his own rhythm) then the jabber isn't hitting anything except the canvas!

Kinda odd that I would find that article after talking about pretty much the same thing, but it makes sense to me.



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[strugler]

I'm not sure if it was Forrest. Nor am I sure if I agree with that theory! I'm not a fighter myself so obviously I can't give an opinion that holds much weight, but while you're jabbing -- unless it's a super fast and effective jab that isn't locked into a particular timing -- you're open to being hit with overhand shots. That's my take on it anyway. The only thing I can safely say with confidence is that I know a bit about rhythm, being a musician who plays drums! Myself, I'd just do triple paradiddles on people's faces if I was a boxer. Flams might work well, too. Ouch. (That's two hits landing very close together, a split second apart).

see your point. I also agree with you and spiegolo analysis of Pac's ability to make some wierd angle to punch it would really be difficult to "timed" such punches.thanks for the input.

[S A M U R A I]

see your point. I also agree with you and spiegolo analysis of Pac's ability to make some wierd angle to punch it would really be difficult to "timed" such punches.thanks for the input.

Thank you for the conversation and your input, too.



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[J.B.moneY.]

i have faith in floyd, sr...he will get the most out of ricky...i just know

[Bhopreign]

It's not correct at all. I agree with you. Because before you know it you got hit by super quick punches that you don't even see coming. How can you time what you can't see?

It is correct, he isnt saying it in that sense, but rather since boxing is science and you cant throw a right hand or left hand and still magically have that same hand back for defense at the same time. In other words timing does disrupt speed in the sense that when a person throws a punch, no matter how fast they are they are left open to receive a punch.

Unless youre knocked out very early, throughout a fight good fighters can adjust to this and pick up mannerisms of a fighter and capitalize, it happens all the time. Reason why I always say speed doesnt win fights....unless the other fighter cant adjust to it.