Jones vs. Lacy in June? Jeff Tells Roy "Let's Do It!"

[roundingace]

You posting the scorecards for the fight, which even many Pavlik supporters admit were skewed, ESPECIALLY the 117-111, does nothing to disprove that Taylor outboxed Pavlik WHEN HE BOXED, which is what I said. Pavlik won primarily on volume.

And you need to recheck your punchstats; as I said, Taylor landed 46% of his power shots compared to Pavlik's 34%, and 35% of his jabs compared to Pavlik's 30%. Meaningless in the outcome of the fight, but shows he was more efficient when he was active, as was clearly visible to and sighted person in front of the television while the fight happened to be playing.

How can you say Roy beats Taylor based on HIS last three performances? A shot Trinidad who was fighting for the first time in three years, being dismantled by Joe Calzaghe (who BHOP was at least competitive with), and getting a bad stoppage against an out of shape Sheika who'd been out of the ring for 18 months and really wasn't that good to start with.

Don't you see your double standard?

If Taylor had the same ref in the first Pavlik fight and Lacy fight as Jones had in the Sheika fight, he'd have TKO wins in both.

Is Jones capable of making Taylor look amateurish? Probably, at least for a few rounds, until that deer in the headlights look sets in that he got against Calzaghe and Tarver, and he can't pull the trigger any more.

I'm not using Roy's last 3 fights for my basis on my prediction. I'm just looking at Roy period. And we can argue the ref all day long as in the Taylor/Chavez fight. I just don't see Jermain, especially the Jermain of NOW and not back when he was fighting Hop, being able to do what he will need to do to beat RJJ. I don't see it. I know Roy is a shell and I know he is not even close to what he used to be, but I know that's still enough to beat JT. That's all I'm saying.

[dstew]

http://www.compuboxonline.com/column/pavlik-taylor.php

From your own link:

Taylor was 182 of 369 (49 percent) overall, landing 37 percent of his jabs (77 of 207) and connecting on an impressive 65 percent of his power punches (105 of 162). In the rematch, Taylor was 10 percent less accurate overall (178 of 456, 39 percent), and he landed fewer power punches in 12 rounds, (76), than he did in six-plus rounds in the first fight (105). At 35 percent (102 of 292), Taylor’s jab accuracy was down two points from the first fight and his 38 punches per round were 15 less than in last September’s bout.

The 35% is referring to his jab accuracy. Look at my source for all the numbers.

[roundingace]

From your own link:



The 35% is referring to his jab accuracy. Look at my source for all the numbers.

Point still stands - how did JT outbox Pav in the rematch? This quote, you cannot dispute, "Pavlik out-jabbed Taylor in 10 of 12 rounds and in eight of 12 in power punches." All I'm saying, is that JT isn't the Hop fighting JT he once was and even Roy in his diminished state, still has the tools to beat him convincingly. And IMO, he will. We can agree to disagree I guess.

[dstew]

I'm not using Roy's last 3 fights for my basis on my prediction. I'm just looking at Roy period. And we can argue the ref all day long as in the Taylor/Chavez fight. I just don't see Jermain, especially the Jermain of NOW and not back when he was fighting Hop, being able to do what he will need to do to beat RJJ. I don't see it. I know Roy is a shell and I know he is not even close to what he used to be, but I know that's still enough to beat JT. That's all I'm saying.

So you're arguing for Jones based on "Roy period" and against Taylor based on his last three fights? See what I mean about the double standard?

What we know about "Roy period" is that he's lost to every good fighter he's faced in the last five years.

[dstew]

Point still stands - how did JT outbox Pav in the rematch? This quote, you cannot dispute, "Pavlik out-jabbed Taylor in 10 of 12 rounds and in eight of 12 in power punches." All I'm saying, is that JT isn't the Hop fighting JT he once was and even Roy in his diminished state, still has the tools to beat him convincingly. And IMO, he will. We can agree to disagree I guess.

MY point still stands... everything you just said proves it... Pavlik threw 200 more jabs than Taylor and landed 40 more... threw 200 more power shots and landed 50 more... he OUTWORKED Taylor to victory. There's no shame in it, I'm not criticizing him for it, just telling it like it was.

You're also completely ignoring that Roy's losses have come against guys with power or guys with higher workrate and good handspeed. Taylor has a fair amount of power and good handspeed, and is not the busiest fighter but would still outwork Jones.

Roy's recent wins have come against guys who (at the time he fought them) were not on Taylor's level, even now.

[roundingace]

So you're arguing for Jones based on "Roy period" and against Taylor based on his last three fights? See what I mean about the double standard?

What we know about "Roy period" is that he's lost to every good fighter he's faced in the last five years.

No, I'm basing it on his tools and abilities even in his diminished state. I'm basing JT's chances on his, obvious declined state. I don't see him having what it takes to get him out of there. That's it.

[roundingace]

MY point still stands... everything you just said proves it... Pavlik threw 200 more jabs than Taylor and landed 40 more... threw 200 more power shots and landed 50 more... he OUTWORKED Taylor to victory. There's no shame in it, I'm not criticizing him for it, just telling it like it was.

You're also completely ignoring that Roy's losses have come against guys with power or guys with higher workrate and good handspeed. Taylor has a fair amount of power and good handspeed, and is not the busiest fighter but would still outwork Jones.

Roy's recent wins have come against guys who (at the time he fought them) were not on Taylor's level, even now.

My question still stands - re-read your first paragraph and you tell me how JT ourboxed Pav as you claimed initially?

[Dan...]

My question still stands - re-read your first paragraph and you tell me how JT ourboxed Pav as you claimed initially?

I think the point is that when Taylor managed to match Pavlik's output, he was getting the better of it. That is not open for discussion in my view. Taylor just did not throw enough punches to get it done, but when he did throw he was clearly the more effective of the two.

[roundingace]

Taylor has a fair amount of power and good handspeed, and is not the busiest fighter but would still outwork Jones.

You're also forgetting this overview of Taylor is at MW. You think Taylor has more power than Jones?? You think he has better handspeed?? You obviously just said he's not the busier fighter. SO HOW can you come to your conclusion he beats him the way you claim???

[roundingace]

I think the point is that when Taylor managed to match Pavlik's output, he was getting the better of it. That is not open for discussion in my view. Taylor just did not throw enough punches to get it done, but when he did throw he was clearly the more effective of the two.

Ok, I'll give in and say JT outboxed him in a few rounds. My whole point of it all wasn't to get into a statistical battle but yet use the statistics to show how a ****er outboxed a boxer and to think RJJ, even now, couldn't do the same if not worse.