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Jones looked better conditioned in tito fight than calzaghe !

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  • #41
    Well, I can see your points and not going as far there. However I still think you've come a little close to a 180. I know you were wanting to be positive about Roy and his chances, but having seen and discussed it with you lots I'm sure you truly felt Roy would be competitive, and had a decent enough shot.

    Plenty of others thought it would be too, and many even in the sport. Hopkins and I think Haye included.

    You were also mindful of not over hyping and setting Roy and yourself up for a fall. So I don't buy you were going far to far previously, perhaps a little. But don't go back on it too much, perhaps you'll reflect after this outing.

    When it comes to deserved, I struggle here because Calzaghe spent his career at 168 where he is now at last agreed by most as the best ever there. He went to 175 and another country to take on the guy whom backed out of a fight years earlier, he got what he wanted and beat the top guy, a legend, and agreed #1 LHW. Roy is an even bigger legend, brings loads of money and attention too, some prestige, and is still a top 10 LHW. There's numerous defences where the guys aren't even in the top 10 in Ring, so I hardly call this in bad one. It was clear the reason for it, Calzaghe had beaten the absolute best in his first outing there, and was fair enough to take on Jones given the scenario and timing of him wanting to retire next. No name Dawson whom brings now money or recognition from a lot of the public world, and casual fans, is hardly suitable or more deserving on those fronts.

    I wouldn't like it if he did it again, but christ look at Pavlik's defences, does he get much ****? Not loads really. Calzaghe beat the #1, then #7 for a big name money finale. If he fought on, it was clear he was only considering Dawson, Johnson or Taylor, so that says it all, he was more than willing but had done what he wanted to and retired later then planned with a nice cherry on the pie to end on.
    Last edited by Kris Silver; 03-20-2009, 02:57 PM.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by S a m u r a i View Post
      Let's be clear on this. Both these guys waned to fight each other. You can't just say "he cherry picked him", because Jones was seemingly desperate to fight Calzaghe, he was the one calling him out after the Tito fight and in interviews. He mentions fighting Joe here as well.





      how come we're left going over this, over and over?

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      • #43
        Im not doing a 180 at all Kris...

        I was optimistic in Roys chances... and thats as far as it went...

        Matter of fact I went to the Trinidad and Roy fight with my uncle and after the fight I was explaining to him how Roy wants Calzaghe and how that would excite me IF he could win it would be huge.. and of course my uncle was impressed by roy in the tito fight because he isnt even a CASUAL fan, so he didnt understand the lay off or weight difference with tito..

        but then he asked me... do you think Roy could beat this Joe guy?

        and I said... NO.... If he did itd be HUGE... but realistically.. no... I dont think he could do it...


        either way you cut it Kris... You dont have to explain to me why Joe fought Roy... I understand why joe fought roy believe it or not!

        what I am saying is... he didnt do anything to deserve it... he hadnt beaten an elite fighter in 5 years and had been knocked cold twice...

        You can say Dawson had no name... but hes an undefeated legitimate LHW champion... which is way more than you could say for ROy...




        And you know damn well... if Joe beat Dawson instead of Roy... his resume would be questioned CONSIDERABLY less, than it is now.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by KrisSilver View Post
          Well, I can see your points and not going as far there. However I still think you've come a little close to a 180. I know you were wanting to be positive about Roy and his chances, but having seen and discussed it with you lots I'm sure you truly felt Roy would be competitive, and had a decent enough shot.

          Plenty of others thought it would be too, and many even in the sport. Hopkins and I think Haye included.

          You were also mindful of not over hyping and setting Roy and yourself up for a fall. So I don't buy you were going far to far previously, perhaps a little. But don't go back on it too much, perhaps you'll reflect after this outing.

          When it comes to deserved, I struggle here because Calzaghe spent his career at 168 where he is now at last agreed by most as the best ever there. He went to 175 and another country to take on the guy whom backed out of a fight years earlier, he got what he wanted and beat the top guy, a legend, and agreed #1 LHW. Roy is an even bigger legend, brings loads of money and attention too, some prestige, and is still a top 10 LHW. There's numerous defences where the guys aren't even in the top 10 in Ring, so I hardly call this in bad one. It was clear the reason for it, Calzaghe had beaten the absolute best in his first outing there, and was fair enough to take on Jones given the scenario and timing of him wanting to retire next. No name Dawson whom brings now money or recognition from a lot of the public world, and casual fans, is hardly suitable or more deserving on those fronts.

          I wouldn't like it if he did it again, but christ look at Pavlik's defences, does he get much ****? Not loads really. Calzaghe beat the #1, then #7 for a big name money finale. If he fought on, it was clear he was only considering Dawson, Johnson or Taylor, so that says it all, he was more than willing but had done what he wanted to and retired later then planned with a nice cherry on the pie to end on.
          well said, bad thing about calzaghe's resume is that alot of atg's have some old/shot elite in their resume but also have some prime to prove they could stick with the best at thier best
          calzaghe only has the old/shot, unless kessler turns out to be an atg

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          • #45
            Originally posted by megadude View Post
            how come we're left going over this, over and over?
            How do you mean, mega?



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            • #46
              Originally posted by S a m u r a i View Post
              How do you mean, mega?
              nuthin, i guess your right

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              • #47
                Originally posted by megadude View Post
                nuthin, i guess your right
                LOL! OK man.



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                • #48
                  Fairs enough. Deserves is very subjective though, I mean in terms of what Roy was, brought in terms of media, name, prestige it did out weight Dawson given it was Joes last fight. But yes for serious boxing fans a Dawson win would be more respected, but hey ho, he'd have beaten him too. Most agree, just shame didn't come off I agree, but it does make sense why he beat the best, and then the still competitive hug name and prestige fight he did, he deserved it for his last outing, to face this guy at last.

                  I would like Joe to come back and beat Chad but only if it's in he next year, more then that he'll quite possible lose. But his resume does make slightly more sense as it get's pasy Lacy. You can see Calzaghe was getting impatient, wanted bigger fights, make his stand at 168 once and for all, beat a couple of legends at the end then finally retire later then he'd ever imagined he would.

                  I still think Joe gets more un deserved criticism for the fight, given there's so many fights and defences, even like 5th defence or something, with a guy way outside the top 10. So facing a top 10 legend in your retirement fight by comparison, isn't that bad at all imo. There is a slight double standard there. Anyways I'm out for a beer, peace homies.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by KrisSilver View Post
                    Fairs enough. Deserves is very subjective though, I mean in terms of what Roy was, brought in terms of media, name, prestige it did out weight Dawson given it was Joes last fight. But yes for serious boxing fans a Dawson win would be more respected, but hey ho, he'd have beaten him too. Most agree, just shame didn't come off I agree, but it does make sense why he beat the best, and then the still competitive hug name and prestige fight he did, he deserved it for his last outing, to face this guy at last.

                    I would like Joe to come back and beat Chad but only if it's in he next year, more then that he'll quite possible lose. But his resume does make slightly more sense as it get's pasy Lacy. You can see Calzaghe was getting impatient, wanted bigger fights, make his stand at 168 once and for all, beat a couple of legends at the end then finally retire later then he'd ever imagined he would.

                    I still think Joe gets more un deserved criticism for the fight, given there's so many fights and defences, even like 5th defence or something, with a guy way outside the top 10. So facing a top 10 legend in your retirement fight by comparison, isn't that bad at all imo. There is a slight double standard there. Anyways I'm out for a beer, peace homies.
                    I think the fact that Roy is ranked in the top 10, says more about the division then anything really...

                    Its all good though, to each his own have a good weekend.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by reedickyaluss View Post
                      I think the fact that Roy is ranked in the top 10, says more about the division then anything really...
                      It does. I find it hard to disagree with you on this.

                      Oh well. What's done is done. I just hope Roy beats the piss out of Sheika. What's your prediction for this one, Reed?



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