Klitschko vs. Haye is Getting Closer as Deadline Looms

[Davros?]

Just get the fight signed, its a good job they did decided to set the date for June as its taken them so long to sort out the contract.

[Ravens Fan]

If the lineal champs were not fighting any of the top contenders in their own divisions but were only ever fighting big names from other divisions, your analogy would be apt. But as long as the Wlad-Haye winner fights a top Heavyweight contender soon afterwards (taking into account the rematch options) then I don't see the problem. As I say, the tradition of a lineal champ moving up in weight and getting an immediate title shot goes right back to Henry Armstrong and beyond (and I'm not pretending that Haye is another Armstrong, I'm talking about the principle of the thing).

And don't forget that Hatton beat the #1 rated contender in his division in his last fight (you may think Malignaggi was over-rated but that's not the point); and Wlad was scheduled to face Povetkin, a top Heavyweight contender, in his last fight, but Povetkin pulled out.

So I agree that if this were to prevent legitimate contenders from ever getting a title shot, that would be a serious problem, but I don't see any evidence that that's happening in those two cases.

What's far more of a problem is when you have several title holders in one division who don't want to fight each other. Valuev ducking the Klitschkos, for example.

Again your points are well taken and it is obvious that you know and understand the sport of boxing. I also understand that it is tradition but in my opinion just because it is tradition it does not make it right. With that said, I would like to point out a few examples to clarify my point.

There is talk that Hopkins will be moving up to challenge for Adamek's lineal Cruiserweight title. Adamek has not defended his title against a legitimate world rated fighter and now it is possible he will fight Hopkins next. My question is what happens if Hopkins wins? After Holyfield's Cruiser reign It took eighteen years to establish another lineal champ in the division. And if Hopkins wins he will never defend the title so where does that leave the Cruiser division? Will history repeat itself as the Cruiserweight division takes a couple of decades to again straighten itself out just so Hopkins can add to his legacy?

I also see it happening if the Pacman beats Hatton. Here you have a fighter in Pacman that has never fought in the division and if he wins he will most likely defend the title in a mega fight with Mayweather. Again I ask where does this leave the division? By the time the fight happens Mayweather will have been out of the ring for over two years and he would not have fought as a Jr. Welterweight in more then five years. And I am just curious if you believe that either one of them will ever bother to defend the lineal title? In my opinion if they don't both retire they will just be on their way to the next mega fight regardless of what division it happens to be in. And until these mega fighters are done adding to their legacy any legitimate fighters in the division will be left out of the whole equation. Now lets see if there is any historical evidence to back this up.

Not that I am harping on Ray Leonard but he is a great example. Ray fought once in the Jr Middle (twice including his lose to Norris), Middleweight and Light Heavy division and yet he won titles in each division. He beat Hagler in a questionable decision and I am not sure who the next lineal champion even was when Sugar Ray found no reason to defend the lineal Middleweight title. I guess he could not find the right mega fight so why be bothered to defend one of the most prized possessions in sports. And one of the most bizarre aspects of his career is the fact that he had never fought as a Super Middleweight until after he won the title. I am telling you I still scratch my head on that one.

Although we obviously have different views on the subject I definitely agree with you on one aspect and that is the ridiculous amount of belts. Maybe it is is not even the fighters fault when they can move up or down twenty pounds and possibly win titles in five different divisions with twenty alphabet belts available. Then if you add in the Super and Regular champions it all sounds like something that should be run by that McMahon fellow instead of any kind of legitimate sport. And just what is a Super Champion anyway, is there actually a Super Super Middleweight Champion lurking around out there?

In closing I have to ask how is boxing going to survive itself? Because I just heard that the WBC Heavyweight fight is being bounced off of ESPN this Saturday so it does not interfere with NCAA wrestling. My question is, is this how irrelevant boxing has become because who the hell watches college wrestling?

[Dave Rado]

Again your points are well taken and it is obvious that you know and understand the sport of boxing. I also understand that it is tradition but in my opinion just because it is tradition it does not make it right. With that said, I would like to point out a few examples to clarify my point.

There is talk that Hopkins will be moving up to challenge for Adamek's lineal Cruiserweight title. Adamek has not defended his title against a legitimate world rated fighter and now it is possible he will fight Hopkins next. My question is what happens if Hopkins wins? After Holyfield's Cruiser reign It took eighteen years to establish another lineal champ in the division. And if Hopkins wins he will never defend the title so where does that leave the Cruiser division? Will history repeat itself as the Cruiserweight division takes a couple of decades to again straighten itself out just so Hopkins can add to his legacy?

I also see it happening if the Pacman beats Hatton. Here you have a fighter in Pacman that has never fought in the division and if he wins he will most likely defend the title in a mega fight with Mayweather. Again I ask where does this leave the division? By the time the fight happens Mayweather will have been out of the ring for over two years and he would not have fought as a Jr. Welterweight in more then five years. And I am just curious if you believe that either one of them will ever bother to defend the lineal title? In my opinion if they don't both retire they will just be on their way to the next mega fight regardless of what division it happens to be in. And until these mega fighters are done adding to their legacy any legitimate fighters in the division will be left out of the whole equation. Now lets see if there is any historical evidence to back this up.

Not that I am harping on Ray Leonard but he is a great example. Ray fought once in the Jr Middle (twice including his lose to Norris), Middleweight and Light Heavy division and yet he won titles in each division. He beat Hagler in a questionable decision and I am not sure who the next lineal champion even was when Sugar Ray found no reason to defend the lineal Middleweight title. I guess he could not find the right mega fight so why be bothered to defend one of the most prized possessions in sports. And one of the most bizarre aspects of his career is the fact that he had never fought as a Super Middleweight until after he won the title. I am telling you I still scratch my head on that one.

Although we obviously have different views on the subject I definitely agree with you on one aspect and that is the ridiculous amount of belts. Maybe it is is not even the fighters fault when they can move up or down twenty pounds and possibly win titles in five different divisions with twenty alphabet belts available. Then if you add in the Super and Regular champions it all sounds like something that should be run by that McMahon fellow instead of any kind of legitimate sport. And just what is a Super Champion anyway, is there actually a Super Super Middleweight Champion lurking around out there?

In closing I have to ask how is boxing going to survive itself? Because I just heard that the WBC Heavyweight fight is being bounced off of ESPN this Saturday so it does not interfere with NCAA wrestling. My question is, is this how irrelevant boxing has become because who the hell watches college wrestling?

You make some good points.

But most of the people who criticise Haye for trying to get this fight don't criticise Pacquiao for fighting Hatton, or Adamek for fighting Hopkins. I'm mostly objecting to their double standards - and to their apparent ignorance of boxing history.

But I also think that provided it doesn't happen too often it's okay. As a boxing fan, I would like to see Pac-Hatton, Adamek-Hopkins and Wlad-Haye - but after they fight I would either like the winners to fight top contenders in their division or to immediately give up their lineal and Ring titles voluntarily, and for there to be a fight between the #1 and #2 contenders.

The big problem is the sanctioning bodies, IMO, not so much the concept of someone moving up and immediately fighting for a title as such. That used to happen quite a lot (when there was one champion at each weight) without causing nearly so many problems.

[j69madrox]

I am so sick of the Klitschkos and can't wait untill they get knocked off. However, I don't know who is going to do it because it certainly won't be Haye or Gomez. Thing is, as much as I want to see them lose, I hope they punish Haye and Gomez. I had hope for Gomez untill I watched his previous fight on youtube, and then read his bio on wikipedia. I hope he gets battered. Haye is an overrated **** talking punk. Guy may have been the man at crusierweight but his chin is suspect and he is too small. Where does he even come off with getting a title shot? For beating Monte "no chin and wobbly legs" Barrett. Hell even Barrett knocked Haye on his ass. With a few months of training and a tune up fight, I'd put my money on Lennox Lewis to beat anyone in the division. And I am not a fan of his either.