Mike Tyson is Underrated Historically

[StarshipTrooper]

Then I think you under-rate both Tyson and Foreman. Just my opinion.

Hardly. I see them for what they were and I don't confuse entertaining with an actual fighting trait as so many do.

Poet

[Dave Rado]

Hardly. I see them for what they were and I don't confuse entertaining with an actual fighting trait as so many do.

Poet

So do I, and nor do I; but I think Tyson's boxing skills, power and speed at the time he beat Spinks, and Foreman's overall fighting presence, power and intimidating presence at the time he beat Frazier and Norton, would have allowed both to beat anyone except Ali, Louis, and possibly Johnson (and I agree that Foreman would have beaten Tyson).

[StarshipTrooper]

So do I, and nor do I; but I think Tyson's boxing skills, power and speed at the time he beat Spinks, and Foreman's overall fighting presence, power and intimidating presence at the time he beat Frazier and Norton, would have allowed both to beat anyone except Ali, Louis, and possibly Johnson (and I agree that Foreman would have beaten Tyson).

You also need to take into consideration stylistic matchups. Fighters such as Tyson, Marciano, and Frazier were homicide victims against fighters such as Foreman and Liston: Bad, bad style matchup. Conversly, someone like Holmes with an ATG jab, first class chin, and subtle foot movement is poison to the Foreman's and Liston's.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

So do I, and nor do I; but I think Tyson's boxing skills, power and speed at the time he beat Spinks, and Foreman's overall fighting presence, power and intimidating presence at the time he beat Frazier and Norton, would have allowed both to beat anyone except Ali, Louis, and possibly Johnson (and I agree that Foreman would have beaten Tyson).

On a side note, the reason I bring up entertainment is that I've crossed swords with so many posters who equate it with fistic skill. The more entertaining the fighter the higher they'll have that fighter ranked.

Poet

[KJB]

You also need to take into consideration stylistic matchups. Fighters such as Tyson, Marciano, and Frazier were homicide victims against fighters such as Foreman and Liston: Bad, bad style matchup. Conversly, someone like Holmes with an ATG jab, first class chin, and subtle foot movement is poison to the Foreman's and Liston's.

Poet

Good post, and I fully agree.

[P4P GOAT]

Tyson does opposition does get overlooked.

[Butterball]

[Dave Rado]

On a side note, the reason I bring up entertainment is that I've crossed swords with so many posters who equate it with fistic skill. The more entertaining the fighter the higher they'll have that fighter ranked.

Poet

Sounds like they must have Gatti as an ATG.

But I would hardly have agreed with you on Johnson's no. 3 ranking if I had thought that way.

[StarshipTrooper]

Sounds like they must have Gatti as an ATG.

You'd be surprised. Usually it manifests itself with consistantly overrating fighters who generate a lot offense and flashy KOs.

Poet

[Dave Rado]

You also need to take into consideration stylistic matchups. Fighters such as Tyson, Marciano, and Frazier were homicide victims against fighters such as Foreman and Liston: Bad, bad style matchup. Conversly, someone like Holmes with an ATG jab, first class chin, and subtle foot movement is poison to the Foreman's and Liston's.

Poet

Your examples make some sense, but I don't see how Dempsey beats the Tyson who fought Spinks, nor how Dempsey beats Foreman. And I don't see how that version of Tyson would lose to Holyfield. The Tyson Holyfield beat was a shell of the boxer-puncher he had once been.