Sugar Ray Robinson's Defense

[S.G.]

I can fight 40 cab drivers then retire am I better than Floyd?

NO!

Floyds biggest win is an old DLH. Let me ask you, is an old DLH greater than a prime George Foreman?

I am talking about Muhammad Ali BTW who beat Foreman in 8 rounds...No?

I thought so.

It isn't about the record...it's about the resume.

Muhammed Ali? never heard of him mate

[S A M U R A I]

was just messing about lol

Greb and Ali are in with a shout for best resume also though, imo

and Zivic, though he lost a few

Hehe. I thought (or at least hoped) you were messing.

Ray has more than twice as many KO's than Floyd's had fights! That's only KO's! 108 of them. I just don't see how Floyd compares, never mind how some can say he is better. Although, I do give props to Floyd for his technique, his defense is most excellent.



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[S A M U R A I]

Seriously, 39-0? What the hell is that? And none of those wins are even against anyone that will be ranked in top 50atg p4p whereas Sugar Ray at one point was like over 100 wins 1 loss, that one loss coming to Jake Lamotta who outweighed Robinson by like over 20 lbs on fight night.

True, but then he beat Jake 5 out of 6 times anyway. I think it was (including the 3rd Lamotta fight) 3 fights in 21 days, and two of those fights were only 8 days apart. We never see anything like that nowadays, everyone's a *****!



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[Fulcrum29]

True, but then he beat Jake 5 out of 6 times anyway. I think it was (including the 3rd Lamotta fight) Ray had 3 fights in 21 days, and two of those fights were only 8 days apart. We never see anything like that nowadays, everyone's a *****!

Yea plus due to the weight classes/system they had back then as you can see on boxrec Lamotta weighed in at 160lbs, Robinson at 145 LOL! Today that would be the equivalent of Paulie Malignaggi fighting Pavlik.

[S A M U R A I]

Yea plus due to the weight classes/system they had back then as you can see on boxrec Lamotta weighed in at 160lbs, Robinson at 145 LOL! Today that would be the equivalent of Paulie Malignaggi fighting Pavlik.

LOL.

Hey Fulcrum, do you know how much Ray was outweighed by Joey Maxim when they fought at light heavy? I know Ray weighed 157.5 at the weigh in. Not sure on the actual weight they fought at. I'd imagine he was outweighed by quite a bit in that fight, too.



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[Fulcrum29]

LOL.

Hey Fulcrum, do you know how much Ray was outweighed by Joey Maxim when they fought at light heavy? I know Ray weighed 157.5 at the weigh in. Not sure on the actual weight they fought at. I'd imagine he was outweighed by quite a bit in that fight, too.

This is the amazing thing.

Maxim was the ONLY man to ever "knock out" Robinson. After almost 200 wins.
For this bout Robinson weighed in at 157lbs Maxim at 173lbs. The equivalent of Mayweather fighting Chad Dawson or Bernard Hopkins.

The fight had 104 degree heat and the referee passed out and had to be replaced in the middle of the fight.
Nevertheless, Robinson made it to round 13 at which point he quit on his stool in between rounds while LEADING THE FIGHT ON ALL 3 SCORECARDS BY A WIDE MARGIN. (10-3, 9-3, 7-3 (with some draw rounds thrown in)).

Not only was he outweighed by almost 20lbs he was easily OWNING the guy and had to quit on his stool due to heat exhaustion in ROUND 14 in 104 degree weather.

This was only his 2nd loss at this point out of 130+ fights and he retired. This was his ONLY "stoppage" loss. Amazing eh? His match will NEVER be seen.

[warp1432]

I think SRR had a defense more like RJJ or Sweet Peas then say Floyd or Toney

He was nothing like Sweet Pea. Willie Pep was like Sweet Pea. Man....Pep was good.

and Zivic, though he lost a few

No offense to Zivic, but he was a joke. He lost to Burley 2 times out of three and then his manager bought his contract, so Burley could never get a title shot.

[TheGreatA]

He was nothing like Sweet Pea. Willie Pep was like Sweet Pea. Man....Pep was good.



No offense to Zivic, but he was a joke. He lost to Burley 2 times out of three and then his manager bought his contract, so Burley could never get a title shot.

Zivic was not a joke. He did avoid a fourth fight with Charley Burley (I'd say his manager did) but there's no question about his willingness to fight anybody aside from that.

Sugar Ray Robinson was definitely not the greatest defensive fighter who ever lived.

More defensive fighters such as Charley Burley and Holman Williams were never given a title shot, partly because of their styles. Robinson himself was avoided for years but eventually he had to be given a shot at the title, the crowds loved to see him fight.

[klipsch speaker]

Samurai, along with BennyST and Fulcrum are among the most credible and consistent posters around here at BoxingScene IMO....

We are just discussing boxing here ok? No insults, no needless inflammatory comments ok?

With that said, and SRR's little shortcomings in defense, would you agree that Roberto Duran was the more complete fighter? Duran in his prime was nearly untouchable at Lightweight relying on his offense and strength and as he progressed towards the end of his reign at this division and into the higher weight divisions, his defense kept on improving! Remember the 15th round in The Brawl in Montreal? He was toying with SRL (of all people!) with his defense. He made SRL miss 5-6 successive shots on two occassions with his feinting and dodging... Along with this, his counterpunching was very fluid and natural to him... The Hands of Stone aside from dominating the Lightweight Division for nearly 8 years also had more championships in higher weight classes than SRR... He was really out of his prime when he defeated a younger, stronger and significantly bigger Iran Barkley who would go on to win a crown at Light Heavyweight... I am no racist but I think if Duran was American and not competed during the Ali years, he would be bigger than he is right now...

[warp1432]

Zivic was not a joke. He did avoid a fourth fight with Charley Burley (I'd say his manager did) but there's no question about his willingness to fight anybody aside from that.

Sugar Ray Robinson was definitely not the greatest defensive fighter who ever lived.

More defensive fighters such as Charley Burley and Holman Williams were never given a title shot, partly because of their styles. Robinson himself was avoided for years but eventually he had to be given a shot at the title, the crowds loved to see him fight.

I guess. I'm still angry how Burley (and others, but mostly Burley since he had such a wonderful style) never got a title shot.