Bigger Cheater Trinidad or Margarito?

[poeticlsykuac]

Who would be the bigger cheater is it Trinidad or Margarito? The guy who wrapped Tito's hands for the Hopkins fight said that is how they always wrapped them and they will from there on. He was using tape instead of gause to protect his hands creating a cast like wrap. Margarito had a plaster like substance.

Who is the bigger cheater? Trinidad admitted he cheated his entire career. Margarito straight up got caught and we have no idea how long he was doing that for.

[cassiusthegreat]

when did trinidad admit to cheating his entire career? do you have a link for this?

not to generalize but maybe alot of boxers rom mexico and puerto rico have done this always

[Larry Merchant]

Both are cheats and both times they were caught by a philly trainer.....**** it takes one to know one.

[poeticlsykuac]

when did trinidad admit to cheating his entire career? do you have a link for this?

not to generalize but maybe alot of boxers rom mexico and puerto rico have done this always

There was a huge article with Bernard Hopkins, Bouie, and others.

Cherifi Better Watch Tito's Hand Wraps.
Exclusive by Ron Heard

On September 29, 2001 before the fight between Bernard Hopkins and Felix Trinidad, team Hopkins sent a representative from their team to over-see Tito's hands being wrapped. When their representative arrived he was shocked to see that Tito's left hand was already wrapped, signed off and the boxing glove was on. In an exclusive interview Bernard Hopkins (said), "I sent my team in there to watch Trinidad wrap his hands and when they got there
Trinidad's left hand was already wrapped and he had his boxing glove on. So my trainer, Bouie Fisher who has been doing this stuff for a long time went over there to straighten it up. The thing is Trinidad has been getting away with doing this for a long time. I know for a fact that he has done it at least one other fight. They are used to being able to do whatever they want and get away with it. That is how it is in boxing."
First of all, you have to wonder who this commissioner was that let Don Felix wrap Tito's hand without anyone from the Hopkins camp being there. Hopkins said, "not only did he let him wrap the hands without us being there, but he was in there joking and laughing and talking Spanish with the Trinidads like they were best friends. When Bouie told them that he would have to take it off and rewrap it in front of someone fron their camp, he said "NO," its
already wrapped and it's too close to time for the fight to start. Bouie had to go to the head commissioner before they were made to rewrap his hands."
Luckily for Hopkins, Bouie Fisher is old school and he was not going to let this fight go on with Tito having wrapped his left hand and nobody from his camp watching it. "Bouie kept telling them, either we do this by the book or we don't do it all," said Hopkins.
It didn't make since to Fisher why the Trinidad's were so insistent on not rewrapping the hand because obviously they knew the rules. They have been in enough of these big fights to know that a representative from the other camp is allowed to be in the room while they are wrapping Tito's hand. Even if the New York Commission's Representative didn't know any better, the Trinidads definitely did. The Trinidads went so far as to actually say, "If we have to rewrap Tito's hand then there will be no fight."
Why was this left hand wrapping so important to the Trinidads?
Finally, after the head commissioner became involved the Trinidads were told to either rewrap the left hand or the fight was off. After much argument, they finally agreed to rewrap the hand with a member from the Hopkins team present.
Tito was made to remove his glove and the prior wrapping in front of Hopkins representative Naazim Richardson who noticed that the wrap looked very thick and when he felt it he says it was as hard as a rock. All the sudden it became very clear why they had tried to get away with wrapping the left hand without anyone from the Hopkins camp watching and also why they didn't want to remove it and rewrap the hand.
Don Felix began to rewrap the hand again, but Richardson noticed that Don Felix was putting layers of tape and then gauze, tape and then gauze, tape and then gauze which is not in accordance with NYSAC rules. The rules stipulate tape cannot be applied directly over the knuckles, and that repeating the process several times (is not permitted).
In an interview with Bernard Fernandez of Philly.com, Hopkins said, "If you put on tape, then gauze, then tape, then gauze, it's like a [plaster] cast. It's like being hit with a baseball bat. I'm giving out some secrets here, but you can dip your hands in ice water and that tape will, like, marinate and become harder. But it's only cheating if you get caught. Personally, I think Vargas' and Reid's people dropped the ball. Naazim did a brilliant job in spotting what [Felix Trinidad Sr.] was doing with the wraps." Don Felix was also putting tape on the skin and over the knuckles, both of which are not in accordance with NYSAC rules. New York's head commissioner put his foot down and made Don Felix wrap in strict accordance to the rules.
Don Felix has insisted in several interviews that, "I have always wrapped Tito's hands this way and nobody else has ever said anything."
That’s like saying, I beat my wife all the time and I've never got in trouble for it before. Now, all the sudden you guys want to make a big deal out this. That's just not right, I'm a respectable man.
In a recent interview of Don Felix by Gerardo M. Avila-Planas and David Mesqueue., Don Felix was asked, "Do you think that the Hopkins camp did it (made them rewrap Tito's hand) to get to you psychologically?" and he answered, "Well, it got to us a little because, since I couldn’t place the tape that I usually place on Tito’s hand.(which is illegal in Nevada and New York).. I had to add some more gauze to make a type of pillow... This tends to take away some of the power in the punch."

.....This tends to take away some of the power in the punch."........From the Mouth Of Don Felix.

......This tends to take away some of the power in the punch!".....From the Mouth Of Don Felix.

There are a couple really important things in this statement by Don Felix.
First, he admits that the New York Commission wouldn't allow him to wrap the hands like he ALWAYS DOES. There can only be one reason for him not being allowed to wrap the hands that way - it was illegal. Therefore, if that is how he ALWAYS wrapped Tito's hands in the past, the assumption that he always wrapped illegally is not far-fetched . But this time he was forced to wrap the hands in strict accordance to NYSAC rules.
Second, he admits that not being able to use the layers and to put the tape on the skin and over the knuckles, "TENDS TO TAKE AWAY SOME OF THE POWER IN THE PUNCH." So he admits that with the illegal wrapping Tito is able to hit harder.

[poeticlsykuac]

Finally, he (The Don) also admits, that not only does the illegal wrap allow Tito to hit harder, but it PREVENTS TITO'S HANDS FROM OPENING ON IMPACT" which actually provides more protection for his hand. So while most fighters have to worry about hitting a fighter on the top of the head in fear of hurting their hands, Tito's hands have extra power and extra protection from illegal hand wraps.
You may think, "Oh Well," it's over. He wrapped the hands illegally, he got caught and was made to rewrap legally - no harm - no foul.
Not exactly.
First of all, Don Felix insists that he is going to continue to wrap Tito's hands the way he has always wrapped them - which is of course, illegally. In the same interview quoted above, Don Felix is asked straight out, "Will you be wrapping Tito’s hands differently for this upcoming fight with Cherifi?" and to my absolute amazement his answer was, "No, we’ll be doing it the same way we’ve always done it because I believe that we wouldn’t have the same problems we had for the last fight. That controversy was really done to fill our heads with too many things at the same time. It was like a type of terrorism in a time when terrorism was in the United States. It was boxing terrorism."
I don't see how you can blame Hopkins for not allowing them to wrap Tito's left hand without anyone from his camp being there. Hown one day the cops come and arrest you just after one of your sparring sessions on her face, you can't blame the cops for terrorizing you just because you got away with it all the other times.
If the wraps were illegal, then they will be and always have been illegal. That is as long as they are in the United States. Which brings up a very interesting twist.
Cherifi better watch very carefully how Tito wraps that left hand, but even if he does, are the same rules applicable in Puerto Rico? Even if the rules are the same will the commission there enforce them?
Regardless, the fact remains; the first reason to pay close attention to this issue is for the protection of Tito's future opponents, such as Cherifi. However, there is another reason. What about Tito's past opponents?
Tito Trinidad has moved up the boxing ranks by giving some of the best fighters in boxing a severe beating and some of them may never be the same after suffering the effects of that beating. Take for example, David Reid. In March of 2000 Reid, who was 14-0 and the WBA jr. middleweight champion of the world, stepped into the ring against Tito Trinidad. Reid had a good right hand and caught Tito with it in the 3rd round and sent him to the canvas. More importantly he was able to avoid Tito's left hook, but only until the 7th round. Tito knocked read down in the 7th and then 3 times in the 11th. Since that fight it has been apparent that Reid will never be the same fighter. He was literally ruined by one fight.
His next fight against Kirino Garcia (who had a record of 28-20-1) you could see the lasting effects of the Trinidad beating - this was supposed to be a confidence building fight for Reid. But instead, Reid was gun shy and tired badly down the stretch allowing Garcia to almost steal the fight; in fact, everyone in the audience felt Kirino Garcia won the fight even though the judges gave the decision to Reid. However, Reid knew he was not the same.
His next fight would be against Urbano Gurrola (who was 18-7) and it was more of the same. Gurrola withstood the right hands through the first 5 rounds and then Reid tired badly. It was as if Reid was a totally different fighter. You could see the panic in his face by the8th round as Gurrola started putting pressure on him. Again, Reid was given a decision that many felt he didn't deserve. The next fight against Maurice Brantley (23-3) was almost identical to the two prior fights. But if those three fights weren't enough proof, his next fight against Sam Hill (who was 13-2-1 and looked to be badly out of shape) confirmed everyone's su****ions. Reid would never be the same fighter - he was TKO'ed in the 9th round by Sam Hill on November 11, 2001 and his career likely over for good. In just over a year’s time it became crystal clear that the beating Tito Trinidad gave David Reid would last a lifetime.
Then you have the Fernando Vargas. If anyone heard the explosion that Tito's left hook made when it connected to Vargas' chin in the first round of their fight, you have to ask yourself "what did he just get hit with." Even Fernardo Vargas said, "I had never been hit with a punch like that. I can remember thinking, who is this guy Mike Tyson." After going back and watching the tape of the Vargas vs Trinidad fight, I noticed that even Jim Lampley was saying, "look at how Vargas is responding even to Tito's jab." It was absolutely amazing. Tito's jab was almost knocking Vargas down and this is a fighter who had fought top quality opposition and had never been knocked down before. The exact same story with William Joppy.
However, once he was made to wrap his hands legally against Bernard Hopkins, the power was gone. At about 1:30 into the first round, Tito and Hopkins got tangled up and as Hopkins was pulling out, Tito was holding his arms down and he hit Hopkins with the exact same left hook that took Vargas down and Joppy out, yet Hopkins felt no ill effects. Again, in the 5th or 6th round as the bell rang to end the round, Tito threw a left hook after the bell rang and caught Hopkins square on his chin, yet Hopkins just looked at Tito like to say, "is that all you got."
You could see the look on Tito's face, he knew that the fight was over at that point. Even Hopkins told me in our interview, "once Tito hit me with his left hook and seen that he couldn't hurt me, the fight was over." It seems that the illegal hand wraps do indeed have an effect on Tito's power, just as Don Felix says.
The facts are, that if the wraps were illegal in New York and Don Felix maintains that he has always wrapped Tito's hands that way and that he is going to continue wrapping Tito's hands that way, then there needs to be an official investigation. :hat
Ironically, in the very same building that Don Felix was caught wrapping Tito's hands illegally (Madison Square Garden), in 1983 a prospect named Billy Collins was badly and surprisingly beaten by an outsider named Luis Resto. At the end Collins's eyes were swollen shut, his mouth was badly bruised and his nose broken. Afterwards his trainer-father shook hands with Resto and felt no padding in the gloves. The very same New York commission discovered.
There must be an official investigation before there is a Billy Collins in Tito Trinidad's future and we can only pray that there is not one in his past.

[poeticlsykuac]

when did trinidad admit to cheating his entire career? do you have a link for this?

not to generalize but maybe alot of boxers rom mexico and puerto rico have done this always

So I guess his guy that wraps his hands admitted they cheated his whole career my bad.

[Reggie Miller]

both are cheaters.

[PavlikRules]

BWAH! Give up kid... Tito was applying MORE GAUZE... NOT plaster. Tito had TRUE raw POWER. KO POWER not that Plaster type **** that cuts ears off and slowly but surely break opponents down.

Tito's father was all about protecting Tito's hands. He NEVER denied and he even stated with nothing to hide, how he ALWAYS wrapped them this way IN FRONT of the COMMISSIONER and ALWAYS had them signed off.

TITO HAD 1 PUNCH KTFO POWER. Margarito was weaknut who CHEATED with PLASTER.


Don't even try it.

[El Dominicano]

I don't know and I don't even care anymore. I do remember Whitaker and Joppy saying they felt like they were being hit with rocks but w/e...Tito's thing was overwraping and Margarito's thing is this so called plaster like substance in his wraps (Which we still don't know half the story of) we do atleast know it was something illegal

[poeticlsykuac]

BWAH! Give up kid... Tito was applying MORE GAUZE... NOT plaster. Tito had TRUE raw POWER. KO POWER not that Plaster type **** that cuts ears off and slowly but surely break opponents down.

Tito's father was all about protecting Tito's hands. He NEVER denied and he even stated with nothing to hide, how he ALWAYS wrapped them this way IN FRONT of the COMMISSIONER and ALWAYS had them signed off.

TITO HAD 1 PUNCH KTFO POWER. Margarito was weaknut who CHEATED with PLASTER.


Don't even try it.

I don't care either way. They are both cheaters, just shows your biased if you won't admit that Tito cheated. Besides if you would have read the article, you would have seen that he wasn't putting on gauze instead they were putting on half a roll of tape, creating a cast like creation, does that perhaps sound similar to what plaster does?

I consider them both cheaters. But I was using this to see which nut huggers would come to the rescue of either fighter.

Just because a commissioner signed off on them doesn't make them right. We all know boxing has a shady side, who says they didn't just let it go several times?

Tito had power, why did he have to create a cast on his left hand? He was a cheater, he wasn't just protecting Tito, he was endangering another fighter, that is BS why does he get a pass?