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ATG is prime vs prime though. All Time Great. What makes one great? Their accomplishments, amongst other things. You could have the best naturally gifted and unbeatable fighters EVER, but only fights 10 times against mostly bums then retires. Is he an all time great? Nope.
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Yes if the fighter fought ten time, ok. But, lets look at 2 examples
Joe Calz
Beat Hopkins and RJJ + undefeated
Roy Jones
Beat Hopkins and Toney, but has 5 losses
When looking at resume it seems that Calz is the far better fighter, but in reality he is not even in Jones' league.
In this case, taking resume into account would only overhype Calz...Comment
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No it wouldn't.
You only have to use common sense and take into account that Calzaghe beat Jones and Hopkins while they were long past their prime (atleast in the case of Jones). Thus those wins do not mean as much as, for example, Jones' win over a prime James Toney.
Overall Jones' resume and achievements look stronger than Calzaghe's despite the losses he had late in his career. It's still not good enough to rank him the number one from 160 to 175 though.Comment
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It might not be enough to rank him number 1 based on resume, but I dont really see anyone beating him in the ring in those weight ranges. If SRL can out box and out "speed" Hagler so can jones.
Lets take another example.
Rid**** Bowe
Has wins over Golota and Holyfield and only 1 loss
Wlad Klitschko
Has wins over nobody that is very notalbe, but has 3 loses to nobodies, except Sanders(GOAT)
Bowe has a way better resume, but I doubt anybody here will put money on Bowe if the two every metComment
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I would. Prime Bowe was magnificent. Amazing jab and powerful right hand, and was also one of the best big men-inside fighters I've ever seen. Was very, very hard to hurt also and could take a punch with the best of them. Took too many in fact.
Anyway, ATG P4P ranking is really rather simple if you look at it from a macro-perspective. How would all fighters fare against each other if they were the same size? If they were all in the same division. You can't say Lewis would beat Louis because he is bigger, because it's P4P we're talking about. Size doesn't necessarily come into it in that way.
The best thing you can go by is who beat who and how good all the opposition was. You have to look at many categories because no matter how good someone looked, if they didn't fight anyone it makes no damn difference. Some fighters look like the greatest thing ever when faced with mediocre to good opposition but when they come up against the greats they wither. Until they face someone with the true skills of another ATG you can't imagine how they would go.
Era's is often the biggest problem. Many people will say Greb could never have hung with Jones Jr, but that is not how you can look at it. The whole point is that everyone in each era has developed their skills on the backs of the earlier era's. Today's fighters are bigger, stronger etc etc. I don't think they're better, because I think in most cases the skill level has dropped considerably with only a few fighters showing the skills that many of the older fighters did.
Anyway, a great fighter from one era is no different than a great fighter from another era. The reason you can tell them apart is by who they beat, how many other great champions they fought and beat in prime and out of it.
Lots of things come into a P4P debate but the easiest way to get the general understanding is if everyone was shoved into the WW division, who would come out on top? Or in the lightweights? Or heavyweights? You choose the division.Comment
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When i hear ATG I just think of guys who weren't just great durin their time, but woulda done well in past eras. This is all subject to interpretation tho.Comment
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I disagree Virus. One can be really talented prime for prime but if he wasted it on fighting bums then he does not deserve the list. The ATG status can be very unfair.........just like the case of Tyson and Marciano. During thier prime...there wasn't anybody...their true talents was not seen against great competition thus thier status in the list suffered. Had Frazier, Foreman, Lewis been available in thier time and won, their place would have been different.
The ATG list is the combination of resumes, achievements, longetivity, skills and contribution/significance to the boxing world.Comment
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I think Klitschko has better, speed, jab, and power.
But my premises is that resume play too much in deciding P4P.
Look at oscar, he is good, but his resume shows that he is borderline great(resume of who he fought, not just won), but he is not borderline great, he is good, maybe very good, but not top 100 IMO
But, oscar will always get placed in the top 100 because "he fought everbody", "look at those names on his resume"Comment
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Frazier is another one...
He is not really ATG heavyweight material. Beat ali once, and lost 2 times to foreman and 2 more times to Ali.
Why he gets so much love, i dont know...Comment
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