The Top 20 Greatest Super Middleweights of All-Time

[IMDAZED]

Joe's achievements at SMW **** on everyone else's from a great height. Why is there even a question? FFS.

Sam,

He got #1 right. The rest is a headscratcher. And the idea of using some "stat" is absolutely ludicrous.

[TheGreatA]

How are any of those wins any better than Benn's, Eubanks, Collins resume?

Benn's resume AT super middleweight aside from the win over McClellan (who wasn't a super middleweight) wasn't too great. He held a belt for a long time but didn't gather up many big wins. You could make the case that he beat Eubank but the fight was scored a draw.

He also had wins over Malinga, Galvano and Wharton which were good wins but he did not beat a single top ten ranked contender during his SMW run (at the time he beat them).

Eubank on the other hand had wins over Watson, Malinga, Rocchigiani, Wharton, Holmes, Thornton, a solid SMW resume to say the least even if some of the decisions were controversial.

Collins had wins over Benn and Eubank but little else.

I'm not saying that Jones or Toney should be ranked at the very top but saying that they aren't even top 10 is in my opinion completely ridiculous.

Not only were they dominant at that weight, but they also have the resume to prove it despite not having as many title defenses as some other super middleweights.

[Shadow boxer 3]

True.

Burner could put together a better list than that lol

agree .

[Chase8400]

Benn's resume AT super middleweight aside from the win over McClellan (who wasn't a super middleweight) wasn't too great. He held a belt for a long time but didn't gather up many big wins. You could make the case that he beat Eubank but the fight was scored a draw.

He also had wins over Malinga, Galvano and Wharton which were good wins but he did not beat a single top ten ranked contender during his SMW run (at the time he beat them).

Eubank on the other hand had wins over Watson, Malinga, Rocchigiani, Wharton, Holmes, Thornton, a solid SMW resume to say the least even if some of the decisions were controversial.

Collins had wins over Benn and Eubank but little else.

I'm not saying that Jones or Toney should be ranked at the very top but saying that they aren't even top 10 is in my opinion completely ridiculous.

Not only were they dominant at that weight, but they also have the resume to prove it despite not having as many title defenses as some other super middleweights.

Very well planned and presented post. A+ for effort and execution.

[crold1]

The list is objective and as such a great basis for argument and should only be regarded as such.

Ridiculing the writer, as you have done, is way off target as the purpose is only to create a base for arguments.

Much more interesting would be to alter the formula. Take the 'number of fellow champions faced' for instance. The formula gives one point regardless of the 'fellow champion' being way past prime. That could perhaps be changed by taking into account how many years ago the 'fellow champ' was a champ. Furthermore this parameter helps the newer champions as less alphabet titles was available 30 years ago.

Not really necessary. For most guys, the careers have a sort of bell curve where they get old guys early and become the old guys late. There is an adjustment beginning in the next list (Jr. Middle) where competition gets totaled and then divided (i.e. beating undisputed champ Benevenuti counts for more than beating Sergio Mora).

I understand what it's based on. It's based on facts. But a system based on what past, present or former champions somebody fought is flawed. A 25-year-old, in his-prime fighter could beat up a 40-year-old fighter 15 years removed from his championship and get credit under this system. Think of all the fighters who beat way-past-their-prime Sugar Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran, etc. Is it a good system to reward, for instance, William Joppy for KOing a 48-year-old Duran?

That's an issue that will come up as we proceed; if a fighter's body of work is strong enough (as Duran's is) it won't hurt much and it won't help Jopy much.

Toney at super middleweight has wins over Barkley, Williams, Littles, Thornton and DeWitt.

Jones at SMW has wins over Toney, Malinga, Sosa, Thornton and Lucas.

I'd take that over having a long string of title defenses against nobodies.

Sosa was not at 68; it was at Winky(catch)weight after Sosa had already left for 175.

I have to agree with Calzaghe being #1 on the list based on division accomplishment but on pure skill and ability, it's impossible to overlook Jones and even Toney.

It is however cute that so many of the Calzaghe past opponents made that list or were ranked higher over more credible fighters. It is what it is but it looks a little like the ranking system leans Joe's way.

And Kessler #2? What a joke.

That's absurd. It's a flat system. Joe happened to finish first. If I'd added up and he finished fourth, that's where I'd have placed him. It's a statistical study.

As to Kessler, in real terms I tend to agree and it's why I noted he has space to fall. I considered not including active fighters and will determine how to use them as I go on.

The lists for Jr. Middle and Jr. Welter begin to be full of better names after this. I mean, Cruiser and Super Middle can have their greatest, but no one could argue many of the names as ATG material.

Finally, the most fun in reading responses so far has been the mini-argument between those who say Toney and Jones shouldn't be rated at all versus those who say they shopuld be rated higher. Fun stuff.

[AllyboyJNR]

Who's better then?

On accomplishments alone Joe is that far ahead of anyone else it's impossible to argue he's not.

joe has achieved **** all to roy be serious here man

[crold1]

Robin Reid anyone?

WBC / IBO champion

Champions faced Nardeillio, Malinga, Calzaghe, Branco, McGee, Lacy, Ottke

Reid was close but he lost too many fights. Branco and Magee didn't count in this analysis; Magee was an IBO champ (not factored) and Branco was a titlist later at Light Heavy. It would count in a general P4P list but Reid won't make the top 100 there either (later this year) so it won't matter.

joe has achieved **** all to roy be serious here man

P4P yes and had he stayed for awhile at 168 probably there as well. He didn't. That's all that matters here.

[GTL]

I'm shock of this list, it's not worth reading it...at this point of time, i'm finish...

yea.. i read the names, not the descriptions..
what a load of ****

[Porter's Dad]

Oh dear. Mikkel Kessler being ranked as the second greatest fighter of all time of a division. Says it all.

It makes you wonder what the **** Calslappy was was doing in killing himself making weight for such a piss poor division. I know he was the champ and got alot of title defences in but so did Sven ****ing Ottke.

Being the best at SMW must be like being the best actor on Hollyoaks.

[crold1]

Oh dear. Mikkel Kessler being ranked as the second greatest fighter of all time of a division. Says it all.

It makes you wonder what the **** Calslappy was was doing in killing himself making weight for such a piss poor division. I know he was the champ and got alot of title defences in but so did Sven ****ing Ottke.

Being the best at SMW must be like being the best actor on Hollyoaks.

No one said it was a great division in total; it's just got its own history. The most fun one to look at right now is Jr. Welter. It's roster is sick and history very deep. I imagine the case will be the same at 30 and 22.