Barrera and Morales are better than Marquez

[-MAKAVELLI-]

Don't get me wrong I like all 3, but its just an opinion, just like yours, just because I think JMM prime would've beaten prime MAB isn't that unbelievable just like a prime MAB beating a prime JMM, just that, if MAB tried to box Marquez he would've been countered all day and at FW or SFW I thought Marquez was faster then Barrera, and we all know what speed does to Barrera.

prime JMM was way too conservative and too 'counterpunch-centric'.. and eve if he waits for a prime MAB to open up, there's no guarantees that he wins more than half of those exchanges...although slightly past his prime, his skillset has gotten more versatile and polished thru the years

[EDD1]

If the element of "in their Prime" is goint to be used in this conversation then maybe it should be pointed out that JMM has ever been dominated in his prime (and this is my opinion , he has never been dominated but for one roung with PAC), however, I do think MAB was in his prime when JR Jones ****d him, just saying.
ps. I have much love for all three of those guerreros.

[Steak]

If the element of "in their Prime" is goint to be used in this conversation then maybe it should be pointed out that JMM has ever been dominated in his prime (and this is my opinion , he has never been dominated but for one roung with PAC), however, I do think MAB was in his prime when JR Jones ****d him, just saying.
ps. I have much love for all three of those guerreros.

watch Junior Jones vs. Barrera 1 and then watch Morales vs. Barrera 1. there is a drastic change in Barrera's defensive abilities.

you want to see the biggest change ever, watch him against Kennedy McKinney and then watch him against Marquez. world class in both fights, but hes a completely different fighter in either fight.

[LilGizmo562]

I fail to see what suggests that Marquez is better than either of them skillwise.

Morales outboxed Pacquiao much more clearly than Marquez did either time, and Barrera outboxed Morales just 4 months before that fight happened.

thats true, but Morales studied the 1st Pacman vs JMM fight to come up with a game plan to beat Manny, so Marquez basically gave him the blue print on how to beat Manny.

[LilGizmo562]

I fail to see what suggests that Marquez is better than either of them skillwise.

Morales outboxed Pacquiao much more clearly than Marquez did either time, and Barrera outboxed Morales just 4 months before that fight happened.

Thats true, but Morales studied the 1st Pacman vs JMM fight to come up with a game plan to beat Manny, so Marquez basically gave him the blue print on how to beat Manny.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

thats true, but Morales studied the 1st Pacman vs JMM fight to come up with a game plan to beat Manny, so Marquez basically gave him the blue print on how to beat Manny.

yes, but that also shows El Terrible's versatility....he adopted someone else's gameplan and excuted it better than the originator....the composure that morales showed in stayin with his jab and pick his spots were impressive....you had a packed house and the easy thing to do would have been to go to war...yet, Morales practiced patience and it was the first time that ive seen Morales actually go backwards and set up perfect counters

[LilGizmo562]

prime JMM was way too conservative and too 'counterpunch-centric'.. and eve if he waits for a prime MAB to open up, there's no guarantees that he wins more than half of those exchanges...although slightly past his prime, his skillset has gotten more versatile and polished thru the years

I can agree with that.

[Steak]

thats true, but Morales studied the 1st Pacman vs JMM fight to come up with a game plan to beat Manny, so Marquez basically gave him the blue print on how to beat Manny.

Marquez had already fought Manny once before, so he should have had an even clearer blueprint on how to beat Manny in their rematch...but Morales still beat Pacquiao better than Marquez did.

[LilGizmo562]

yes, but that also shows El Terrible's versatility....he adopted someone else's gameplan and excuted it better than the originator....the composure that morales showed in stayin with his jab and pick his spots were impressive....you had a packed house and the easy thing to do would have been to go to war...yet, Morales practiced patience and it was the first time that ive seen Morales actually go backwards and set up perfect counters

True, that's what scared me about Morales, that is why I wouldn't know the winner of Morales vs Marquez if it ever happened, because of Morales versatility. O.O

[123tyson123]

First off, just let me say that I love to watch Marquez fight. his counter punching skill is outstanding, and his combination punching is some of the best Ive seen in a long time. I cant wait to see his fight against Juan Diaz, and he deserves his #2 spot in the p4p list.

Now that Ive gotten that out of the way, I have to say that Marquez isnt as good as Morales and MAB were. I think its safe to say that Marquez's real career defining fights are the Pacquiao ones, right? I think its also safe to say that Marquez's style is almost perfect to give Pacquiao fits, his counter punching is great at upseting a quick, hard puncher he gets off balance often with his lunging shots.
and yet Morales is still the one who has the most convincing win over Pacquiao. I had Marquez winning the 2nd fight 115-113 and the 1st one I have a draw, marquez win or Pacquiao win all depending on one very difficult round(which ends up deciding the winner of the fight, go figure), but Morales clearly beat Pacquiao more one sidedly. he even could have taken the 12th round, but decided to slug it out and turn southpaw(which clearly benefitted Pacquiao). In other words, he outfought Marquez at his own game, counterpunching.

As for MAB, you can say what you want about the MAB-Marquez fight, but Marquez did NOT have an easy time. yea, he won it, but this was a damn close fight. and this was Barrera at the twilight of his career, he sacficed a lot of his natural power to keep some of his diminishing speed in that fight too. If Barrera had more snap to his punches, the fight could have ended up quite different. even without much snap to his punches, the fight was dead even after 9 or 10 rounds and Barrera legitimately dropped Marquez, and Barrera didnt have anything left for the final haul and Marquez ended up sweeping the final rounds.
I have to admit that I doubt that Marquez could have even beaten the MAB of the 3rd Morales fight, who had better stamina and more powerful punches, but was just as fast and just about as technically solid.
although Barrera would never have been as successful against Pacquiao as Marquez was. his style just doesnt match up with Pacquiao's well.

and career wise, I dont think theres much debate that Marquez has a bit of catching up to do.

no offense to Marquez...hes an outstanding fighter. but having rewatched MAB vs. Morales I & III along with Morales vs. Pacquiao last night, I was just amazed at how good they really were, even though Ive seen those about 4 times each it still blows my mind.

totally aggree with everything there mate. Nice thread.

Marquez is an outstanding fighter but Marco and Erik are that bit better. My personal opinion