how many people have actually seen alot of srr fights???

[javelin_fangs]

see this is a man with his own opinion..thats the point of this thread..cause everyone doesnt think the same

Well, SRR didn't have great technique. He did hold his hands low and often threw his hooks from his waist. Yeah, that's true. But Hagler was not three times the fighter of LaMotta. Let's get that out of the way right now. Second, SRL threw his shoeshine combos from his waist and used an upjab from his waist (similar to Judah's). Now, he got that style from Kid Gavilan. But it worked on Hagler.

I really doubt that Robinson having proven himself against all the middleweights of his day, even past his prime, would have much trouble winning a lop-sided 15 round decision against Hagler. That's my opinion and I apologize that most people share that opinion. Maybe I should just say that Robinson is overrated.

[them_apples]

Well, SRR didn't have great technique. He did hold his hands low and often threw his hooks from his waist. Yeah, that's true. But Hagler was not three times the fighter of LaMotta. Let's get that out of the way right now. Second, SRL threw his shoeshine combos from his waist and used an upjab from his waist (similar to Judah's). Now, he got that style from Kid Gavilan. But it worked on Hagler.

I really doubt that Robinson having proven himself against all the middleweights of his day, even past his prime, would have much trouble winning a lop-sided 15 round decision against Hagler. That's my opinion and I apologize that most people share that opinion. Maybe I should just say that Robinson is overrated.

SRL only threw his shoe shine combos when he knew he had his oponent hurt, he was very fundamentally sound whilst boxing, watch him vs May weather sr.

I was exaggerating about Hagler being 3 times the fighter Lamotta was, but Hagler is quicker, has an equivalent chin and much more power, Lamotta was not a big hitter at all his ko record was pretty low key. I also see Hagler as a better boxer. No way do I see Robinson getting a lopsided 15 rounder over Hagler.

I wouldn't really go and say he's overrated, people will take it the wrong way and react in a horrible manner. In those 90+ wins though, non of his opponents were anything close to the 3 fighters I mentioned.

[TheGreatA]

Yea, everyone has seen the Fullmer clip. Amazing left hook it travelled like 6 inches.

Yea the Olson combinations were awesome, what I love about Robinson (who is my favourite fighter ever) is that he's the only guy I've seen who would throw combinations at points in a fight exclusively to the body. Great body punchers like JCC work both the body and head in the combinations. I've seen Robinson work the body exclusively in combinations without bothering going to the head.

Here are the SRR clips that I talked about:

[-EX-]

Only seen a few clips to be honest. I don't really like watching fights pre-60's and 70's. I stay out of convo's regarding Robinson for the most part. But jus lookin at his record...damn lol. Multi-division champ as well.

[nathan_nall]

i reserve judgement on fighters that were from before my era


however, Ray Robinson's mytique had always intrigued me and he's one of the few people that i've researched on the net...all in all, i've seen about 6-7 SRR fights and i have no problem calling him the GOAT

Probably one of the most intelligent statements ever made on a boxing message board.

[Verstyle]

I think most ppl say he's the greatest because other ppl say so. I don't think he is because I haven't seen enough of his fights or how good his opposition is to say so. Let me see at least 40 or 50 fights and I can judge what I think. I'd rather stay with ppl I know and have seen fight.

[javelin_fangs]

SRL only threw his shoe shine combos when he knew he had his oponent hurt, he was very fundamentally sound whilst boxing, watch him vs May weather sr.

I was exaggerating about Hagler being 3 times the fighter Lamotta was, but Hagler is quicker, has an equivalent chin and much more power, Lamotta was not a big hitter at all his ko record was pretty low key. I also see Hagler as a better boxer. No way do I see Robinson getting a lopsided 15 rounder over Hagler.

I wouldn't really go and say he's overrated, people will take it the wrong way and react in a horrible manner. In those 90+ wins though, non of his opponents were anything close to the 3 fighters I mentioned.

LaMotta was a better defensive fighter than Hagler...think of an Italian version of James Toney and you roughly have LaMotta. But Hagler, he got away with some of his defensive flaws because he had a great chin and he wasn't horrible so he didn't get hit too much for him to withstand. He was no Margarito maybe Holyfield is a good comparison. Good enough defensively, great chin, but he was going to take his licks.

Robinson didn't get hit much at all and you know that hook would have landed on Hagler. The same movement, the same jab that Leonard used on Hagler Robinson would have used too. I'm not talking about SRL's end of round shoeshines or the bolo punch. I'm talking about that Gavilan stuff he used to do and used on Hagler. Where he'd lean slightly to his right and shoot the up-jab from the other side then before you knew it you had a combo in your face and by the time you recovered he'd side stepped you and you had to reset. All that resetting Hagler had to do against SRL, well SRR would have made him do it too.

[FasTHarD]

Old fighters are overrated... I'm not saying who.... I watch old ATG fighters they're not great as i expected... Most ATG fighters was rated by their record not who they fight... If Chris John was fighting on 60's 70's he may have been @ ATG.

[them_apples]

LaMotta was a better defensive fighter than Hagler...think of an Italian version of James Toney and you roughly have LaMotta. But Hagler, he got away with some of his defensive flaws because he had a great chin and he wasn't horrible so he didn't get hit too much for him to withstand. He was no Margarito maybe Holyfield is a good comparison. Good enough defensively, great chin, but he was going to take his licks.

Robinson didn't get hit much at all and you know that hook would have landed on Hagler. The same movement, the same jab that Leonard used on Hagler Robinson would have used too. I'm not talking about SRL's end of round shoeshines or the bolo punch. I'm talking about that Gavilan stuff he used to do and used on Hagler. Where he'd lean slightly to his right and shoot the up-jab from the other side then before you knew it you had a combo in your face and by the time you recovered he'd side stepped you and you had to reset. All that resetting Hagler had to do against SRL, well SRR would have made him do it too.

That's a pretty sketchy outlook of Lamotta, from what I've seen, he wasn't anywhere near James Toney's defensive mastery. Hagler's defense is also being underated by you. I think you have them the wrong way around. Hagler is the better boxer, with better defense, Lamotta is the one who "takes his licks" to land a punch.

Robinsons hook would land on Hagler no doubt, but Robinson's hook doesn't stand up to Thomas Hearns right hand, a punch that Hagler had little trouble dealing with.

Look at resumes also, aside from Robinson, Lamotta has a pretty stale resume in comparison to Hagler's. Really, if Lamotta hadn't had that win over Robinson nobody would know who he is.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=TZHIo5ylQA8 Hagler's boxing skills are much more than anything Lamotta could muster up.

I hope you watch that video, it shows Haglers underated defense. He slips punches and counters masterfully.

I also hope you know that Hagler was not at his best when he fought SRL. Leonard is also a quicker fighter than Robinson, Robinson, although liked to box, often got lead into a brawl. SRL and SRR did not fight with many similarities. SRL is simply one of the quickest fighters ever to grace the ring, even SRR doesn't possess that kind of handspeed.

[TheGreatA]

That's a pretty sketchy outlook of Lamotta, from what I've seen, he wasn't anywhere near James Toney's defensive mastery. Hagler's defense is also being underated by you. I think you have them the wrong way around. Hagler is the better boxer, with better defense, Lamotta is the one who "takes his licks" to land a punch.

Robinsons hook would land on Hagler no doubt, but Robinson's hook doesn't stand up to Thomas Hearns right hand, a punch that Hagler had little trouble dealing with.

Look at resumes also, aside from Robinson, Lamotta has a pretty stale resume in comparison to Hagler's. Really, if Lamotta hadn't had that win over Robinson nobody would know who he is.

That's not true. LaMotta's resume is as great as anyones, the problem is that he lost a little too many to be ranked among the top 5 middleweights.

But he has great wins over Ray Robinson, Marcel Cerdan, Holman Williams and Fritzie Zivic (HOFers). Compare that to Hagler's wins over Hearns, Duran, Antuofermo (HOFers).

LaMotta also has underrated wins over top contenders such as Mitri, Dauthuille, Basora, Costner, Hairston, DeJohn, Satterfield, Bell, Villemain, Hayes, Murphy, Yarosz. All in all a very solid middleweight resume.