How many prime, great fighters are there in the world right now?

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  • Clegg
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    #1

    How many prime, great fighters are there in the world right now?

    Different people have different definitions of great. So I'm going to with whether or not the boxer in question would get into the HOF if he retired tomorrow. Bear in mind that this leaves out that possibility that one of the people on the below list gets KTFO in their next fight. This is significant because, had I written this list a few months ago, Mijares would've been on it.

    Whether or not a boxer is in his prime is a matter of opinion, but usually there isn't too much debate on the topic.

    The below list is my attempt at naming all the possibilities, not the boxers that I feel deserve it. I'll try and list why some people might consider them great, even if I myself do not agree.

    Heavyweights:2
    Wladimir Klitschko (some good wins, has dominated the division for a few years and is recognised as the best fighter in the division)
    Vitali Klitschko (A couple of world titles. His 2 losses are the results of injuries/cuts. Managed to recapture title after long layoff)
    Cruiserweights: 0
    Light heavyweights:1
    Joe Calzaghe (Most agree that he is HOF worthy. Some people consider him to be prime because his 2 best wins have been within the past 13 months)
    B Hop and RJJ are greats but are clearly past their prime. Chad Dawson is prime but hasn't done enough to be considered great.
    SMW: 1
    Jermain Taylor (Held the undisputed title at 160 rather than just an ABC belt. Has consistently faced tough opposition. Wins over Hopkins are better wins than some HOFers, so I guess you could make a case based upon that)
    Middleweight: 0
    LMW: 0
    Welterweight: 1
    Miguel Cotto (Wins over several former or future champions. Solid resume)
    LWW: 1
    Ricky Hatton (Has been very popular. As some people will vote for Gatti and Hamed, I'm sure Hatton will get votes as well. Has the true title at 140, also won belt at 147)
    Lightweight: 2
    Pacquiao (hopefully no explanation needed). JMM (Belts in 3 weight classes, 2 very close fights with Pacquiao)
    SFW: 0
    FW: 0
    SBW: 2
    Vasquez and Marquez
    JBW: 0
    Bantamweight: 1
    Hozumi Hasegawa (I don't know much about this guy as I don't really follow the division. Some people seem to rate him..?)
    JBW: 0
    Flyweight: 0
    Junior Flyweight:1
    Ivan Calderon (Has beaten a lot of top contenders, including those who are significantly larger than himself. Lots of wins in world title fights)
    Minimumweight: 0

    So, being as kind as possible, the highest number you could possibly come out with is 12.

    IMO the only certain HOFers out of those 12 are Calzaghe, Pacquiao, and maybe JMM and Calderon. I don't consider Calzaghe to be prime. JMM does not have a great resume, and as a fan I am perhaps biased in considering him great. Both Pac and JMM are fighting above their best weight class. Calderon's record lacks a unification fight or any particularly great win/opponent.

    So...yeah, just figured I would point out that it could be argued that there are no prime, great fighters who are fighting in their best weight class.
    Last edited by Clegg; 12-20-2008, 03:49 PM.
  • KnockoutTheFat
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    #2
    Only person I can think of right now is Billy Dib.

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    • KnockoutTheFat
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      #3
      But seriously, Pacquiao is obvious and then after that the only person I can possibly think of is MAYBE Wlad since he's only 32.

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      • Clegg
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        #4
        Yeah, I think Wlad will probably be rated higher in the future than he is now. Not sure why that is, but that's what happened with other heavyweights who ruled the division when it was considered poor (Lennox and Holes, for example).

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        • broxi51
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          #5
          jermain taylor? sorry dont why he even gets a mention at smw only fought once there agaisnt lacy who is shot and at catchweight of 164 which he lost.

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          • AndyShitHot
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            #6
            I think there are a few but I wouldn't include Wlad. With his size and power he should be a better fighter than what he is, he just fights like he's scarred of the past repeating itself and I think that really holds him back from greatness. Yeah he's got a lot of wins against guys smaller than him but that alone does not allow him greatness imo. Vitali's one perfromance in 2008 was more impressive than any of Wlad's 3 performances.

            I few people I would put in the truely great and prime category are:

            HW: 0
            CW: 0
            LMW: Calzaghe & Hopkins (both getting on a bit but both had big wins in 2007 and 08)
            SMW: 0
            MW: 0
            LMW: 0
            WW: Cotto & Margarito (that's what made their fight and will make their 2nd fight so great. It really is the best taking on the best)
            LWW: 0
            LW: Pacquiao & Marquez (Both amazing and hope they fight again)
            SFW: 0
            FW: 0
            SBW: Vasquez & Marquez
            Below: Calderon (Amazing boxer who I can't see being beaten any time soon)

            Apart from that I have a lot of fighters who are maybe one or two great performances away from joining this list but at the moment I have just these 9 guys.

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              #7
              I think flyweight and superflyweight have a ton of talent yet you gave them goose eggs.

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              • Little guys rul
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                #8
                Originally posted by Clegg
                Different people have different definitions of great. So I'm going to with whether or not the boxer in question would get into the HOF if he retired tomorrow. Bear in mind that this leaves out that possibility that one of the people on the below list gets KTFO in their next fight. This is significant because, had I written this list a few months ago, Mijares would've been on it.

                Whether or not a boxer is in his prime is a matter of opinion, but usually there isn't too much debate on the topic.

                The below list is my attempt at naming all the possibilities, not the boxers that I feel deserve it. I'll try and list why some people might consider them great, even if I myself do not agree.

                Heavyweights:2
                Wladimir Klitschko (some good wins, has dominated the division for a few years and is recognised as the best fighter in the division)
                Vitali Klitschko (A couple of world titles. His 2 losses are the results of injuries/cuts. Managed to recapture title after long layoff)
                Cruiserweights: 0
                Light heavyweights:1
                Joe Calzaghe (Most agree that he is HOF worthy. Some people consider him to be prime because his 2 best wins have been within the past 13 months)
                B Hop and RJJ are greats but are clearly past their prime. Chad Dawson is prime but hasn't done enough to be considered great.
                SMW: 1
                Jermain Taylor (Held the undisputed title at 160 rather than just an ABC belt. Has consistently faced tough opposition. Wins over Hopkins are better wins than some HOFers, so I guess you could make a case based upon that)
                Middleweight: 0
                LMW: 0
                Welterweight: 1
                Miguel Cotto (Wins over several former or future champions. Solid resume)
                LWW: 1
                Ricky Hatton (Has been very popular. As some people will vote for Gatti and Hamed, I'm sure Hatton will get votes as well. Has the true title at 140, also won belt at 147)
                Lightweight: 2
                Pacquiao (hopefully no explanation needed). JMM (Belts in 3 weight classes, 2 very close fights with Pacquiao)
                SFW: 0
                FW: 0
                SBW: 2
                Vasquez and Marquez
                JBW: 0
                Bantamweight: 1
                Hozumi Hasegawa (I don't know much about this guy as I don't really follow the division. Some people seem to rate him..?)
                JBW: 0
                Flyweight: 0
                Junior Flyweight:1
                Ivan Calderon (Has beaten a lot of top contenders, including those who are significantly larger than himself. Lots of wins in world title fights)
                Minimumweight: 0

                So, being as kind as possible, the highest number you could possibly come out with is 12.

                IMO the only certain HOFers out of those 12 are Calzaghe, Pacquiao, and maybe JMM and Calderon. I don't consider Calzaghe to be prime. JMM does not have a great resume, and as a fan I am perhaps biased in considering him great. Both Pac and JMM are fighting above their best weight class. Calderon's record lacks a unification fight or any particularly great win/opponent.

                So...yeah, just figured I would point out that it could be argued that there are no prime, great fighters who are fighting in their best weight class.
                Roman " chocolate" gonzalez is one of the next superstars, he will finish Calderon next year.

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                • Clegg
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by AndyShitHot
                  I think there are a few but I wouldn't include Wlad. With his size and power he should be a better fighter than what he is, he just fights like he's scarred of the past repeating itself and I think that really holds him back from greatness. Yeah he's got a lot of wins against guys smaller than him but that alone does not allow him greatness imo. Vitali's one perfromance in 2008 was more impressive than any of Wlad's 3 performances.

                  I few people I would put in the truely great and prime category are:

                  HW: 0
                  CW: 0
                  LMW: Calzaghe & Hopkins (both getting on a bit but both had big wins in 2007 and 08)
                  SMW: 0
                  MW: 0
                  LMW: 0
                  WW: Cotto & Margarito (that's what made their fight and will make their 2nd fight so great. It really is the best taking on the best)
                  LWW: 0
                  LW: Pacquiao & Marquez (Both amazing and hope they fight again)
                  SFW: 0
                  FW: 0
                  SBW: Vasquez & Marquez
                  Below: Calderon (Amazing boxer who I can't see being beaten any time soon)

                  Apart from that I have a lot of fighters who are maybe one or two great performances away from joining this list but at the moment I have just these 9 guys.
                  Hopkins is still doing well, but I think he's clearly past prime.

                  The only really good win of Margarito's career was against Cotto. The Clottey win and Santos defeat even one another out IMO. The win over Cintron isn't anything special until Cintron manages a good win at some point. The loss to Williams who promptly lost his next fight to Quintana is a big negative.

                  I think Margarito is pretty far from greatness to be honest.

                  Cotto is very talented, and I like him a lot, but he has never beat a reigning champion or successfully unified. Lots of good wins, but the Margarito loss takes quite a bit of shine off of his record.

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                  • Clegg
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by jreckoning
                    I think flyweight and superflyweight have a ton of talent yet you gave them goose eggs.
                    Sorry j, I'm not too knowledgable on those guys, but of the ones I know: Donaire, Mijares, Vic...they are talented but not great IMO. They might be considered that way in the future, based upon what they go on to do, but at the moment I don't think they are there yet.

                    Sorry if I missed anyone out.

                    Originally posted by Little guys rul
                    Roman " chocolate" gonzalez is one of the next superstars, he will finish Calderon next year.
                    Yeah, I saw the video of his that you posted, I will be looking out for him in future.

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