Margarito Vs. Calzaghe Vs. Tarver: the science of Beat Punching

[bsrizpac]

All three of these men use (or in Tarvers case have used with inconsistency) an offense that swarms with a lot of punches thrown aka "flurries".

Now semantics about how often Tarver really used this offense aside (you can see it in Jones 1, and Johnson 1/2 if you really want to go down that route), I thought I'd highlight what makes it effective.

For the purpose of this discussion I'm going to ignore footwork, and angles so don't complain about that, that's on purpose. All we are talking about is punching here.

Now some of you already know this, those that train, and others have heard of it called something else I'm sure by a lot of trainers and coaches.

In any case they all use the offense of flurrying with a high workrate. Well why does this work? Ignoring also counterpunches and the fact that they all have good chins, how can this be effective even if the opponent is covering up quite well, and flurrying as we know does not carry as much power as sitting down on your shots?

If you go to a boxing and gym and try to bullrush or flurry or shoeshine you will be cut down immediately. So how does these guys get people into corners and flurry to win fights and even hurt their opponents.

Ignoring how they get them there (that's another long and lengthy discussion) when they flurry they use beat punches.

Simply put this is the science of mixing up your shots, and just a fancy name for something pretty easy to understand.

But let's take it a bit further.

Let's take a 3 punch combination. It can be anything. Jab, right hand, left hook- basic, and classic.

Beat punching is pausing in the middle of the combination.

Combo 1: Jab-pause-right hand, left hook.

But you can mix it up.

Combo 2: Jab, right hand-pause, left hook.

if you added a punch at the end of that combination, making it let's say jab, right hand left hook, right hand you can increase the number of combinations.

Combo 3: Jab, pause, right hand, left hook, right hand.

Combo 4: Jab, right hand, pause, left hook, right hand.

Combo 5: Jab, right hand, left hook, pause right hand.

As you start increasing the number of punches thrown the combinations you can create increase also.

Is this a true combination? I think my response to that is who cares. For all intents and purposes these combinations are true ones because they confuse the opponent as to what your Rhythm is.

The other technique these fighters use (along with others) this is related to this is that they mix in the hard punches with the shoe shines.

So again looking at the combinations presented above:

Combo 5 could be broken down further into:

A. Hard Jab, right hand, left hook, right hand.
B. Jab, hard right hand, left hook, right hand.
C. Jab, right hand, hard left hook, right hand.
D. Jab, right hand, left hook, right hand.

Obviously all this is overly simplified and works better if you have the conditioning and ability to throw at least a 5+ punch combination. But again that's another debate. These concepts work better the more punches you throw but that should be obvious from watching these fighters.

Questions? Comments?

[bsrizpac]

All three of these men use (or in Tarvers case have used with inconsistency) an offense that swarms with a lot of punches thrown aka "flurries".

Now semantics about how often Tarver really used this offense aside (you can see it in Jones 1, and Johnson 1/2 if you really want to go down that route), I thought I'd highlight what makes it effective.

For the purpose of this discussion I'm going to ignore footwork, and angles so don't complain about that, that's on purpose. All we are talking about is punching here.

Now some of you already know this, those that train, and others have heard of it called something else I'm sure by a lot of trainers and coaches.

In any case they all use the offense of flurrying with a high workrate. Well why does this work? Ignoring also counterpunches and the fact that they all have good chins, how can this be effective even if the opponent is covering up quite well, and flurrying as we know does not carry as much power as sitting down on your shots?

If you go to a boxing and gym and try to bullrush or flurry or shoeshine you will be cut down immediately. So how does these guys get people into corners and flurry to win fights and even hurt their opponents.

Ignoring how they get them there (that's another long and lengthy discussion) when they flurry they use beat punches.

Simply put this is the science of mixing up your shots, and just a fancy name for something pretty easy to understand.

But let's take it a bit further.

Let's take a 3 punch combination. It can be anything. Jab, right hand, left hook- basic, and classic.

Beat punching is pausing in the middle of the combination.

Combo 1: Jab-pause-right hand, left hook.

But you can mix it up.

Combo 2: Jab, right hand-pause, left hook.

if you added a punch at the end of that combination, making it let's say jab, right hand left hook, right hand you can increase the number of combinations.

Combo 3: Jab, pause, right hand, left hook, right hand.

Combo 4: Jab, right hand, pause, left hook, right hand.

Combo 5: Jab, right hand, left hook, pause right hand.

As you start increasing the number of punches thrown the combinations you can create here.

Is this a true combination? I think my response to that is who cares. For all intents and purposes these combinations are true ones because they confuse the opponent as to what your Rhythm is.

The other technique these fighters use (along with others) this is related to this is that they mix in the hard punches with the shoe shines.

So again looking at the combinations presented above:

Combo 5 could be broken down further into:

A. Hard Jab, right hand, left hook, right hand.
B. Jab, hard right hand, left hook, right hand.
C. Jab, right hand, hard left hook, right hand.
D. Jab, right hand, left hook, right hand.

Obviously all this is overly simplified and works better if you have the conditioning and ability to throw at least a 5+ punch combination. But again that's another debate. These concepts work better the more punches you throw but that should be obvious from watching these fighters.

Questions? Comments?

Also if you'd like I can add some racial trolling if you think that would make this thread get more replies.

[_Hunter_]

Crappy thread

[bsrizpac]

Crappy thread

Keep following me around *****. how are those disgusting ****ing teeth doing?

[_Hunter_]

Keep following me around *****. how are those disgusting ****ing teeth doing?

My teeth are fine, why dont you post some more yank redneck peoples teeth again?

[MANGLER]

Good analysis homey. The thing is guys like Joe C, Ouma, Pwill, Juan Diaz, etc don't throw wit a lotta power mixed wit their volume. Marg has far less hand speed than those guys but throws his flurries wit power behind em.

[The Gambler1981]

Shouldn't faints be included in this. Like 1-left Jab faint right 2- left hook 3-straight right

[mspiegelo]

this makes sense. tarver does this a lot. im gonna try this in sparring...

[insipiens]

Margarito doesn't vary his rythm as much, and throws a higher percentage of his punches hard than do Tarver or Calzaghe.

[bsrizpac]

Shouldn't faints be included in this. Like 1-left Jab faint right 2- left hook 3-straight right

They can be included in this, although from observation most fighters tend to feint at the beginning of combinations not in the middle.

However it is taught that way you are correct.

I noted in the thread that this was an overly simplified analysis that would just give some people who might not know some idea of what's going on during the punching exchanges.

I mean given your example I could write a 30 page paper on just the feints alone, because there are different kinds of feints.

Shoulder feints, footwork feints, head feints, lead feints, rear feints, etc.

The combinations are infinite, but your thinking is exactly right. That's what I hoped this thread would do, kind of open up your kind of thinking to everyone.