Measured Against All Time - James Toney

[crold1]

ok my bad with the vargas thing(though then id say oscar defended against the #1 callenger.....)....and i wasnt comparing the fights itself.....but seriously another point for me....having tito winning means you pretty much gave every round he didnt get dominated to him....which to me proves a clear bias against oscar......seriously your articles make valid points....but to me the oscar one is written with a tad bit of bias against him because of your personal preference....like i said, i dont care if clazaghe-toney-oscar are ATG's or not......but im saying if Calzaghe and Toney are, Oscar is... end of...

No, I had DLH in front 5-2-1 after 8. I had Tito sweeping the last four, which pretty much everyone else did too.

As another note in Toney's favor, he has more wins than Oscar has fight and the same number of losses....in the same era.

[deemo]

there is no doubt toney is an all time great, joe and oscar are borderline all time greats.

[crold1]

there is no doubt toney is an all time great, joe and oscar are borderline all time greats.

Joe's stature will improve more over time than Oscar's is likely to amongst Boxing wonks while Oscar will always be discussed amongst casual observers. Fair fates for both.

[oldgringo]

Great read Cliff. Keep up the good work.

[crold1]

Great read Cliff. Keep up the good work.

Thanks...love the JYD pic. Grab them cakes baby.

[jbmaca]

Cliff Rold - The best writer on Boxingscene in my opinion. Great read as always.

[crold1]

With the Lebedev loss really writing the epitaph on a great, if mercurial, career, bumping this up.

[coonan]

Good article, Cliff. Can't believe I'm just stumbling upon it now. One thing I might have fleshed out a bit more was the weight challenge James faced going into the Roy fight--dropping c. 50lbs in 4-6 weeks to make 168, weighing at 167, then putting on 19 lbs or some such after the weigh-in. Far from the healthiest version of Toney. Roy may very well have beaten him anyway, but I think we would have seen a different fight had Toney dropped the weight at a more reasonable rate.

I agree that JT is an ATG, inconsistencies notwithstanding. And that chin . . . .

[FinitoxDinamita]

Born fighter. Toney is so good that he can be out of shape and still kick somebody's ass. Only few fighters can do that.

When he was fighting at HW, i mean he was at his worst shape but dude still fked nukkas up. That is how good he is.

I respect Toney way more than Hopkins.

[Redd Foxx]

Ancient thread, but a good'un.
I think Toney was truly special. But, I'll never respect a guy more because of his gifts or because he "doesn't have to workout".
I have greater respect for the guys who have to work their asses off to get where they're at.