Freddie Roach: Wrong or Right on knowing that Oscar would be dead come fight time?

[Benny Leonard]

Apart from the fact there is no direct link between Parkinsons and boxing, brain damage is usually inflicted over prolongued beatings and usually in a long journeyman career like Freddie's. Not Oscar's. Like Ali said:

'If boxing causes Parkinsons, then a million people are boxers!'

Ali is also not a Scientist/Doctor.

They point to symptoms. People mistake one for the other; that's true.


"The disorder, however, is called Parkinson's syndrome, rather than Parkinson's disease, to distinguish it from the form typical of the elderly. According to Dr. Stanley Fahn, Ali's neurologist at the Columbia Presbyterian Medical Center, the former champion's symptoms, until ameliorated by treatment, included sluggish speech, loss of facial expression, slowness of motion and some hand tremors."

Read the full article here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A962948260

[S A M U R A I]

You need to go over my Floyd posts carefully. You will see that I rip on Floyd a lot; especially his legacy at 147+.
I laughed when people were crediting him with a greater legacy at 147 than SRR, SRL, and Tommy Hearns...and some people thought he would whipe the floor with them all. I said I favored the other three over Floyd.

This is true. I have noticed you are one of the more objective Floyd fans, which is refreshing to see. I don't like it when people think Floyd can do no wrong. Many of his fans would clap if he farted.



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[Benny Leonard]

This is true. I have noticed you are one of the more objective Floyd fans, which is refreshing to see. I don't like it when people think Floyd can do no wrong. Many of his fans would clap if he farted.

lol

I'm a boxing fan first.

I also gave Manny a decent shot to beat Floyd if he comes back...and I listed why. I favor Floyd; maybe 60/40, depending on what the contract stipulates and when the fight will take place, etc. To early to make odds to be honest.

Of course, the big debate was the weight which most didn't see to get my point...sadly.

[Williamb45]

You need to go over my Floyd posts carefully. You will see that I rip on Floyd a lot; especially his legacy at 147+.
I laughed when people were crediting him with a greater legacy at 147 than SRR, SRL, and Tommy Hearns...and some people thought he would whipe the floor with them all. I said I favored the other three over Floyd.

For Manny: I also said I prefer to watch Manny than the 147+ version of Floyd. And, I like Manny's attitude a lot better than Floyd's.


I know all about what Oscar does, but my piont was to Freddie, given his status in boxing and his health.
I said Oscar deserved it for not knowing his history.
Someone else in another thread pointed to Karma...so I wondered, given Freddie's position; will Karma strike him back, again...if Karma exists.

I thought about the rest already and concentrated on Freddie.

Roach is just a trainer, he is paid to watch out for his own fighter. This is a combat sport. Pac was getting a career high payday for that fight, and this fight will increase his earning potential for his future fights, who the **** is roach to rob him of that on some bs ethical issues.

Whats next, roach should tell Pac to throw his left hand with half strength, since it might injure someone. If roach had those types of thought that you expect him to have, he is a trainer in the wrong sport, he should do something else, cuz no matter who pac fights he is going to do a longterm damage to that person to some degree.

[Benny Leonard]

Roach is just a trainer, he is paid to watch out for his own fighter. This is a combat sport. Pac was getting a career high payday for that fight, and this fight will increase his earning potential for his future fights, who the **** is roach to rob him of that on some bs ethical issues.

Whats next, roach should tell Pac to throw his left hand with half strength, since it might injure someone. If roach had those types of thought that you expect him to have, he is a trainer in the wrong sport, he should do something else, cuz no matter who pac fights he is going to do a longterm damage to that person to some degree.

It's the difference between fighting a Live fighter and a Dead fighter; that is my point.

It's why people had concern with Ali when he kept fighting.

If two Men are healthy, and are top fighters going at each other; it's a fair fight and what ever happens, happens; that's why you shake hands...it's an agreement of knowing what could happen and accepting it.


I couldn't complain if the fight had been at 154 and Oscar showed up at his usual 164+ because at least he would have been alive and had a chance.


Ethics are part of the sport.

[freedom213]

Here is my confliction:
Freddie Roach:
Freddie got Parkinson’s from fighting and he knows the dangers that fighters are in.

Why would he accept a fight with Oscar at 147 given his knowing of what would happen on the scales and the dangers that come with it? He pointed to every fighter that had trouble making weight after fighting at a higher weight; especially older fighters. He also noted that Oscar couldn’t pull the trigger anymore.

Knowing this, he risked the health of Oscar. True, Oscar was the one that took that risk and over-looked it, but given Freddie was a former fighter, a great trainer, and knew the history of the sport and what happens to such fighters and the dangers that come with it.

So shouldn’t he have been the bigger Man and just told Oscar: “Look, I know what you are doing trying to fight Manny at 147, but the bottom line is, it isn’t safe for you as a fighter; I know you think you can do it, but History has shown otherwise. You may want this fight and think you can do it, but I will not have my fighter fighting a corpse by fight time because it will look bad on me. I could steal your money right now because I know what I know, but, I am not a thief and I care about other fighters as well as my own; especially fighters I helped train. Listen Oscar, if you feel you need to fight smaller fighters at this stage of your career and need to come down in weight to do it; just retire. Go watch Roy and Byrd and the others that tried to do it; you’re not any different. Do what you want, but hear my warning. I will not have my fighter fighting a dead corpse at 147.




Freddie didn't have to have Manny fight Oscar. Manny isn't a Welterweight even though he is 147 pounds
And, Oscar didn't have a belt.

So why did he do this?

Was it all about Money?

Or was it all about the side of nature we see in every-day life, especially with watching the Nature Channel: Take advantage of the Old Lion by sending in the Young and Hungry.

You answered your own question. boxing aint black and white, just like people. money of course is a big motivator but so is the challenge of dethroning a power player like Oscar and thrusting pac into the spotlight.