Freddie Roach: Wrong or Right on knowing that Oscar would be dead come fight time?

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  • Benny Leonard
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    #1

    Freddie Roach: Wrong or Right on knowing that Oscar would be dead come fight time?

    Here is my confliction:
    Freddie Roach:
    Freddie got Parkinson’s from fighting and he knows the dangers that fighters are in.

    Why would he accept a fight with Oscar at 147 given his knowing of what would happen on the scales and the dangers that come with it? He pointed to every fighter that had trouble making weight after fighting at a higher weight; especially older fighters. He also noted that Oscar couldn’t pull the trigger anymore.

    Knowing this, he risked the health of Oscar. True, Oscar was the one that took that risk and over-looked it, but given Freddie was a former fighter, a great trainer, and knew the history of the sport and what happens to such fighters and the dangers that come with it.

    So shouldn’t he have been the bigger Man and just told Oscar: “Look, I know what you are doing trying to fight Manny at 147, but the bottom line is, it isn’t safe for you as a fighter; I know you think you can do it, but History has shown otherwise. You may want this fight and think you can do it, but I will not have my fighter fighting a corpse by fight time because it will look bad on me. I could steal your money right now because I know what I know, but, I am not a thief and I care about other fighters as well as my own; especially fighters I helped train. Listen Oscar, if you feel you need to fight smaller fighters at this stage of your career and need to come down in weight to do it; just retire. Go watch Roy and Byrd and the others that tried to do it; you’re not any different. Do what you want, but hear my warning. I will not have my fighter fighting a dead corpse at 147.




    Freddie didn't have to have Manny fight Oscar. Manny isn't a Welterweight even though he is 147 pounds
    And, Oscar didn't have a belt.

    So why did he do this?

    Was it all about Money?

    Or was it all about the side of nature we see in every-day life, especially with watching the Nature Channel: Take advantage of the Old Lion by sending in the Young and Hungry.
    Last edited by Benny Leonard; 12-11-2008, 09:25 PM.
  • S A M U R A I
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    #2
    You take every advantage you can. That's all there is to it. Oscar would do the same. He underestimated Manny, thought the fight would be an easy pay day, a walk in the park, and was taught a lesson.

    By the way, it was a bigger guy preparing to knock out a smaller guy. The smaller guy risked his health too. Manny could have been damaged from the fight if Oscar had his way. Oscar predicted a KO.

    On top of that, you have quotes like the one below. I'm glad it backfired.

    "Oscar going to beat the dog **** out of Pacquiao. Oscar is going to rearrange his ****ing face man, believe me." ~ Mayweather Sr.



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    Last edited by S A M U R A I; 12-11-2008, 09:33 PM.

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    • Benny Leonard
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      #3
      Originally posted by F•R•K•O
      You take every advantage you can. That's all there is to it. Oscar would do the same. He underestimated Manny, thought the fight would be an easy pay day, a walk in the park, and was taught a lesson.
      It was a lesson to Oscar and he should have known his history, but my question and confliction is directed towards Freddie Roach for knowing everything. And given his situation with his health from boxing...should he have been the bigger man; the "Wise Sage" and said "No" to the fight because it can be deemed dishonorable to win in such a way?

      He didn't have to fight Oscar like say, Rocky may have had to fight Louis because Louis needed the money and Rocky's manager said in order to get a title shot; you have to get by Louis.
      So Rocky, not wanting to, finally gave in after Louis said he really needed Rocky to fight him. After Rocky knocked him out, he was so upset, he was said to have cried and apologized to Louis.

      In Freddie's case: He didn't need to take the Oscar fight.

      \

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      • S A M U R A I
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        #4
        I know what you're saying, and you raise good, valid points, but I have no sympathy for Oscar. He'll get over it.



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        • SuckaPunch
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          #5
          Freddie's call of "Oscar can't pull the trigger anymore" is a marketing ploy so people will think Pacquiao has a chance.

          Nobody can predict the future. It just happened that Freddie was right.

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          • Benny Leonard
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            #6
            Originally posted by F•R•K•O
            I know what you're saying, and you raise good, valid points, but I have no sympathy for Oscar. He'll get over it.
            No I don't either.

            I also thought about the other side to it:
            Freddie, being the teacher, and knowing Oscar wouldn't listen because he hadn't listened to history, was going to show Oscar what he meant.

            what did Oscar say after the match?
            "Freddie, you were right"


            What could Freddie have been thinking: Yes, because I'm the teacher and you are the student. Let this serve you as a lesson to all fighters, even though they should have learned from the prior fighters this happened to, as well as your fighters Oscar; look after them.

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            • Benny Leonard
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              #7
              Originally posted by SuckaPunch
              Freddie's call of "Oscar can't pull the trigger anymore" is a marketing ploy so people will think Pacquiao has a chance.

              Nobody can predict the future. It just happened that Freddie was right.
              No it wasn't. Freddie said it before and then broke down the reasons after. He went further after the fight and discussed the bigger issue: weight.

              Freddie knew, which is why he put Manny in there against this version of Oscar.

              Knowing the Past helps Predict the Future.

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              • brently1979
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                #8
                DLH didn't even try and Box Pac, he just came out trying to steam roll him.

                Oscar should have came into fight stronger than what he did, his camp have a lot to answer for imo. I also believe that he thought Pac was gong to stand there and trade with Oscar.

                Oscar was too ****ing lazy to make 147 against Forbes, which would have been the perfect trial to see how he went fighting at 147, but DLH didn't take that fight seriously and moved the weight to 150.

                Oscar was only interested in fighting the biggest Name in the sport and it back fired on him.

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                • SuckaPunch
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Benny Leonard
                  No it wasn't. Freddie said it before and then broke down the reasons after. He went further after the fight and discussed the bigger issue: weight.

                  Freddie knew, which is why he put Manny in there against this version of Oscar.

                  Knowing the Past helps Predict the Future.
                  Nah, c'mon. Freddie is playing Monday morning quarterback, and I would've done the same if I was him.

                  Suppose DLH weighed-in @ 165 lbs on fight night and overpowered Pacquiao, I wonder what Freddie will say...

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                  • Benny Leonard
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by SuckaPunch
                    Nah, c'mon. Freddie is playing Monday morning quarterback, and I would've done the same if I was him.

                    Suppose DLH weighed-in @ 165 lbs on fight night and overpowered Pacquiao, I wonder what Freddie will say...
                    No he is not.

                    He knew the combination of weight-loss and where Oscar was at in his career was in the favor of Pac. That's why he said every time he did the calculation in his head, he saw Manny coming out on top.

                    If he was so confident without the weight-loss, he would have just fought Oscar at 154 and allowed him to be healthier. But, Freddie wanted to make sure, and that is where the weight came in.

                    Freddie knew his history.

                    Hell, I'm just a poster and I said I favored Oscar, but I wouldn't be surprised if Oscar came in "flat" because I started to think about Tszyu vs. Hatton. There were too many similarities. I said if Oscar could come in healthy, like he did with Floyd, he is favored 65/35; but, if he has trouble with the weight and everything catches up with him like it did Tszyu; he isn't favored.

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