Sam Langford - The Uncrowned Heavyweight Champion

[ferocity]

Johnson may have been the greater heavyweight, Langford was by far the greater p4p fighter.

I can't agree. Jack Johnson lately for some reason has been getting a lot of hate, when he was a great fighter all-time status -imo. I'll be going to the library tomorrow to pick up some books, i'll look into some Sam Langford books or info.

[JAB5239]

I can't agree. Jack Johnson lately for some reason has been getting a lot of hate, when he was a great fighter all-time status -imo. I'll be going to the library tomorrow to pick up some books, i'll look into some Sam Langford books or info.

Trust me, Langford fought and beat some of the best fighters from lightweight to heavyweight. Gans, Blackburn, Walcott, Flowers, Ketchel, O'Brien, Wills, Jeanette, McVey, Flynn etc. He was a beast. On most historians top 5 p4p lists.

Johnson was great. I've been defending him in the boxing history forum this week. And he did whoop Sam when they fought. But Langford rightfully earned another shot at Johnson which never came.

Thats neither her nor there though, check him out yourself. Im sure you'll be impressed my friend.

[TheGreatA]

Langford fought all of them, world champions from lightweight all the way up to the heavyweight division.

Joe Gans (LW champion), Joe Walcott (WW champion), Stanley Ketchel (MW champion), Tiger Flowers (MW champion), Philadelphia Jack O'Brien (LHW champion) and Jack Johnson (HW champion), not to mention avoided heavyweight contenders such as Harry Wills, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVea, Kid Norfolk and others.

[edgarg]

Yeah Johnson knocked him down in the 6th round of their 15 round fight. Iwish we had footage of this fight, as well as Langford/Ketchel, watching two heavy hitters like that would have been something.

Hello,

I just now saw that you wished you had a video of that Johnson Ketchell fight etc. Well i've got the part where Johnson was knocked down, rolled got up and leaped at Ketchell and KO'd him.

I'd br happy to send you a copy, but the problem is...that I've packed away all my tapes, and also,they're labelled so haphazardly. I tape everything about boxing I come across, and have often ignored labelling, as I'm vety lazy that way, so, when I DO label I have to re-run the tape.....

The GOOD thing {msybe} is that at month's end, I'm travelling to Florida, landing at Ft. Lauderdale and taking a motel in Boca Raton whilst I figure out what to do and where to go. I have relatives in Boca and will be staying for 6 months.

If I'd made contact with you sooner, I could have flown to Miami, and stayed in a motel there instead, and met you, and enjoyed taping some of YOUR fights.....

I'm hoping to go to Roy Jones' training camp sometime and have a chat with him......

[edgarg]

Langford fought all of them, world champions from lightweight all the way up to the heavyweight division.

Joe Gans (LW champion), Joe Walcott (WW champion), Stanley Ketchel (MW champion), Tiger Flowers (MW champion), Philadelphia Jack O'Brien (LHW champion) and Jack Johnson (HW champion), not to mention avoided heavyweight contenders such as Harry Wills, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVea, Kid Norfolk and others.

Its well known (or should be) that boxing fans didn't fill the halls when 2 black fighters were the main attraction. {In fact, this was the major reason that Johnson wouldn't bother fighting a black man- he fought plenty when he was Coloured Heavyweight Champion etc.) So, the fighters made sure that fight followers got value for their money, by also making sure that most fights went the full distance, or close to it. Perhaps in black title fights they'd be serious, or after a certain amount of rounds etc. So the fact that Langford fought that list you posted, only says that he outweighed the lighter fighters and was involved in the multiple matchups which the top coloured fighters had to go through to maintasin interest in the fights and make a little money. He seemed, from his record, which i have somewhere, to have fought the black fighters very often in title matches, therefore they were serious and often very good fights.

For heavens sake, in the early and mid 1930's alone, the very great Joe "King" Oliver, when touring with his wonderful Jazz Band in two large cars, used to play for about $2 a man or less, and sometimes, even, for nothing. The cars eventually broke down, the musicians stranded, and faded away, and the poor King, that great innovator and composer, was left to become a billiard hall janitor where shortly after, he died, in abject poverty........ like Langford.

I say "like Langford", although, strictly speaking, this was niot true.

A picture of him sitting on the front steps of a shack wearing silver-rimmed glasses, was published in RING (which I have) described as being poverty-stricken, and it elicited considerable interest amongst boxing scribes and fans. A Fund was set up, and Langford enjoyed the rest of his life -several years- in comparative confort.

I recall all the fuss about it at the time.

[edgarg]

Yeah Johnson knocked him down in the 6th round of their 15 round fight. Iwish we had footage of this fight, as well as Langford/Ketchel, watching two heavy hitters like that would have been something.

I never heard of Johnny McGinty. I thought your picture looked like Jimmy Wilde.

[edgarg]

People seem to forget that Langford started fighting as a Lightweight.

Starting as a lightweight really means nothing as in those days they started at an early age, and would be just in their growing stages so they'd go up in class as they grew taller and heavier. Many keep growing until about age 25. Very like Young Stribling for example. I think that he began as a flyweight, and eventually became the #1 Heavyweight contender. I think that he was beaten, {was it by Sharkey, or Schmeling maybe- my memory fails me here) and shortly after got killed in that ****** ****** motor-bike accident. A huge loss to boxing and his folks, Ma and Pa Stribling who were also his managers and trainers.

Although I think that Langford began at a fairly late age, and was managed by a local pharmacist, and picked up the nickname of the "Boston Tar Baby" fairly early having shown his quality. Again all this is from memory so I hope I'm forgiven for errors.

[edgarg]

Its well known (or should be) that boxing fans didn't fill the halls when 2 black fighters were the main attraction. {In fact, this was the major reason that Johnson wouldn't bother fighting a black man- he fought plenty when he was Coloured Heavyweight Champion etc.) So, the fighters made sure that fight followers got value for their money, by also making sure that most fights went the full distance, or close to it. Perhaps in black title fights they'd be serious, or after a certain amount of rounds etc. So the fact that Langford fought that list you posted, only says that he outweighed the lighter fighters and was involved in the multiple matchups which the top coloured fighters had to go through to maintasin interest in the fights and make a little money. He seemed, from his record, which i have somewhere, to have fought the black fighters very often in title matches, therefore they were serious and often very good fights.

For heavens sake, in the early and mid 1930's alone, the very great Joe "King" Oliver, when touring with his wonderful Jazz Band in two large cars, used to play for about $2 a man or less, and sometimes, even, for nothing. The cars eventually broke down, the musicians stranded, and faded away, and the poor King, that great innovator and composer, was left to become a billiard hall janitor where shortly after, he died, in abject poverty........ like Langford.

I say "like Langford", although, strictly speaking, this was niot true.

A picture of him sitting on the front steps of a shack wearing silver-rimmed glasses, was published in RING (which I have) described as being poverty-stricken, and it elicited considerable interest amongst boxing scribes and fans. A Fund was set up, and Langford enjoyed the rest of his life -several years- in comparative confort.

I recall all the fuss about it at the time.

Whilst on Kng Oliver, {I know I shouldn't since this is a boxing page, but the moderators are very lenient sometimes) I should have added that his star pupil, Louis Armstrong, whom he taught, and brought into his Orchestra, met him in his janatorial period and gave him $100.

Armstrong was going big at that time, (and $100 was nothing to him), although we only learn of this from Armstriong's biography, also how he loved Oliver, who treated him like a benevolent father, and taught him for free, gave him his very first horn, (how
I wish I had this horn) yet he says nothing about taking Oliver out of his abject life and giving him an easy job in his, Armstrong's own band, and making sure he was in a good, comfortable home, to die in peace, in his last days...NO NOTHING like that........because he just gave him a hundred dollars, talked a bit about old times and walked away, ignoring him from then on.

So in fact, poor old Langford, who had it so tough in the years after he retired, in his last years had it exactly the reverse of that other great Negro figure, who's stature was so great that it made all colour-blind, being absorbed by the white population all over the world as well.

I hope this is printed.

[edgarg]

To the moderators

For the Moderators...Thank You ! I hope that this gets printed too...!!

[JAB5239]

Starting as a lightweight really means nothing as in those days they started at an early age, and would be just in their growing stages so they'd go up in class as they grew taller and heavier. Many keep growing until about age 25. Very like Young Stribling for example. I think that he began as a flyweight, and eventually became the #1 Heavyweight contender. I think that he was beaten, {was it by Sharkey, or Schmeling maybe- my memory fails me here) and shortly after got killed in that ****** ****** motor-bike accident. A huge loss to boxing and his folks, Ma and Pa Stribling who were also his managers and trainers.

Although I think that Langford began at a fairly late age, and was managed by a local pharmacist, and picked up the nickname of the "Boston Tar Baby" fairly early having shown his quality. Again all this is from memory so I hope I'm forgiven for errors.

Im curious why you dismiss someone like Langford with talk about starting at an "earlier age". Can you give specific examples? Bacause Sam started his career at 19 (about the age of most pro's in their fist fight) and conquered more noteworthy fighters than anyone that could be named for almost any fighter in history.

As far as "picking up his nickname" for the quality of his abilities.......there is no doubt as to why Langford was labled as such, and it has nothing to do with how he fought.

The rest of your post reads like a word by word reprint of a boxrec summary cut in peices.