The Ring, May 1994 issue - GOAT Division by Division

[-irishthunder-]

-Both Morales and Barrera have the resume to make the top five super bantamweights.
-Floyd has the resume to make 4th or 5th junior lightweight, but has no case to lightweight top five, or even top ten.
-I would rank Leonard over Duran
-Kostya Tszyu might take Cervantes or Berg's place at 140
-I would rate both Monzon and Greb over Robinson, but Hopkins should not make the top five here, the fighters already listed are just so damn great
-Jones Jr. and Calzaghe invade 168 rankings with ease
-Jones Jr. is not a top five light heavyweight. Even fighters better than him have not been included.
-You could throw dice with the top 3-5 heavyweights

[kg21mvp]

where's pancho villa at flyweight.
morales and barrera can make a case for them to be included in the top 5 of the 122 lbs division.

[KostyaTszyu44]

I was sifting through a pile of old boxing magazines yesterday and came across this issue I bought way back when I was stationed at Fort Gordon, GA.

In 1994, the Ring listed the top 5 Greatest of All Time Fighters per weight division. Do you remember this one Sully?

Below is how they ranked them at the time (keep in mind, this is 1994).

What changes should be made to these rankings now (present day 2008)?

105lbs
1. Ricardo Lopez
2. Phalan Lukmingkwan
3. Bong Jun Kim
4. Chana Porpaoin
5. Hiroki Ioka

108lbs
1. Michael Carbajal
2. Jung Koo Chang
3. Yoko Gushiken
4. Myung Woo Yuh
5. Hilario Zapata

112lbs
1. Jimmy Wilde
2. Miguel Canto
3. Pascual Perez
4. Frankie Genaro
5. Benny Lynch

115lbs
1. Khaosai Galaxy
2. Gilberto Roman
3. Jiro Watanabe
4. Sung Kil Moon
5. Rafael Orono

118lbs
1. Carlos Zarate
2. Eder Jofre
3. Ruben Olivares
4. Manuel Ortiz
5. Panama Al Brown

122lbs
1. Wilfredo Gomez
2. Jeff Fenech
3. Sergio Palma
4. Kennedy McKinney
5. Victor Callejas

126lbs
1. Willie Pep
2. Terry McGovern
3. Abe Attell
4. Sandy Saddler
5. Salvador Sanchez

130lbs
1. Alexis Arguello
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Azumah Nelson
4. Gabriel "Flash" Elorde
5. Alfredo Escalera

135lbs
1. Roberto Duran
2. Benny Leonard
3. Joe Gans
4. Tony Canzoneri
5. Ike Williams

140lbs
1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Aaron Pryor
3. Barney Ross
4. Antonio Cervantes
5. Jack "Kid" Berg

147lbs
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sugar Ray Leonard
4. Barney Ross
5. Jimmy McLarnin

154lbs
1. Thomas Hearns
2. Mike McCallum
3. Koichi Wajima
4. Wilfred Benitez
5. Julian Jackson

160lbs
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Harry Greb
4. Stanley Ketchel
5. Marvin Hagler

168lbs
1. Chong Pal Park
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Thomas Hearns
4. James Toney
5. Michael Nunn

175lbs
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Bob Foster
4. Gene Tunney
5. Tommy Loughran

190lbs
1. Evander Holyfield
2. Dwight Qawi
3. Carlos De Leon
4. Ossie Ocasio
5. Orlin Norris

Heavyweight
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Jack Dempsey

good thread idea man

[BennyST]

-Both Morales and Barrera have the resume to make the top five super bantamweights.
-Floyd has the resume to make 4th or 5th junior lightweight, but has no case to lightweight top five, or even top ten.
-I would rank Leonard over Duran
-Kostya Tszyu might take Cervantes or Berg's place at 140
-I would rate both Monzon and Greb over Robinson, but Hopkins should not make the top five here, the fighters already listed are just so damn great
-Jones Jr. and Calzaghe invade 168 rankings with ease
-Jones Jr. is not a top five light heavyweight. Even fighters better than him have not been included.
-You could throw dice with the top 3-5 heavyweights

Leonard was ranked above Duran. Actually, they weren't even rated together at all, which is not unusual considering Duran started at FW and had his best work done at LW, whereas Leonard started at WW and did his best work there. Duran wasn't rated in the top five at WW, and Leonard never fought below WW, so they couldn't have been rated together, unless Duran was rated above Leonard, Robinson and Armstrong at WW, which, of course, is not going to happen.

As a few have already mentioned, there are a number of odd choices in that list, with some of the most obvious ones being Robinson number one at MW but number two at WW. You would think Monzon and Hagler, and also Greb would be above him.

Mayweather could sneak into the top five at 130 as well as Tszyu into the top five at 140. Whitaker should be in there, as well as Ortiz. Calzaghe is now the top guy at 168, as well as Toney being a little higher. Jones should go into the LHW rankings.

Anyway, that was a quick skim through some obvious choices, but, the one large glaring mistake for me was among the lower weights. It is a very strange one. At 108 the top dog is Carbajal with Chang following it up etc etc. I can understand Carbajal being first, but what I can't figure out is the exclusion of Humberto Gonzalez. Not only did he beat Carbajal twice in their three fights, and both were in their primes with Gonzalez being a little older, but he also beat Chang the number two rated guy there. Not only is he excluded from the top three, he is not even in the top five at all. At the time he was fighting he was one of the only fighters to ever win the title three times in the same division and he beat what many people consider two of the best fighters at that weight ever. Honestly, you would think he could take first place pretty damn easily and really most probably would have him first.

A very odd choice that one. Both of those guys, Carbajal and Gonzalez, had very similar records and both fought all the top guys and both were multiple champions, along with going into the HOF at the same time.

[MWMerlino]

SRR was a great boxer but I'm tired of the nostalgia around golden age fighters making them seem more attractive then they really are.

Hagler @ 160 > SRR
Hopkins @ 160 > SRR

[BennyST]

SRR was a great boxer but I'm tired of the nostalgia around golden age fighters making them seem more attractive then they really are.

Hagler @ 160 > SRR
Hopkins @ 160 > SRR

What about Monzon? Monzon > Hopkins, Hagler and SRR.

I know what you mean, but admittedly, it was not golden age nostalgia in Robinson's case. He quite simply beat so many great, great, great fighters throughout his whole career that it's impossible to make any case for him being worse than he actually was. His record, and those that he beat, speaks for itself. He probably beat more great current, former and future champs than anyone other fighter in history.

[Hagler★]

Calzaghe needs to be thrown in at SMW, RJJ at LHW, Hopkins at MW. I saw a couple of flaws on that list, I dont see Sugar Ray Leonard being an ATG SMW.
Also I dont think you can rank anyone over Sugar Ray Robinson at WW, and Pernell Whitaker should be on there somewhere if JCC is.

in 94 the super middle weight division would have only had been around for like 8 years max. and he and Hearns were inaugral winners of the belt by the two different councils i think wbc and wbo respectively

[Hagler★]

Just happy to see some old (?) goat referring to the Ring Magazine, which still makes everything right.

I've noticed on this forum pages, that the younger generations have a wider belief in the scrap, alphabet organizations than us older ones. And the young ones use to respond (in their ignorance of boxing history) to the Ring as old ****.

Well, I stick to the Ring. In the long run, it (the magazine) still preach the voice of fairness and truth. Despite De La Hoya is one of its owner now, they dare to critizise him. And that's journalism of true integrity.

The Ring maintain its position as no. 1.

im 20 and i believe in the ring magazines ranking and title? they way they calculate their divisions, champions and title defences is what boxing needs

[IMDAZED]

That's what I said, he was doing things at the time though. Here's what they had to say about him:

Kennedy McKinney: IBF king's goal is to surpass Gomez as best fighter in 122lbs history... Will undoubtedly rise to feather before registering numbers produced by Gomez... Will take major step, however, if vitorious over WBC champ Tracy Patterson in bout tentatively scheduled for later this year... Bout will be significant; at this weight, unification matches aren't exactly common... Rose from canvas to win crown with thrilling one-punch kayo of Welcome Ncita... Has made three defenses, topping tough comp in Richard Duran, Rudy Zavala, and former titlist Jesus Salud... Drug problems almost toppled him early in career, but remains unbeaten... Classy boxer with dominant jab and dangerous right hand.

Err...that plan got derailed big time.

[El Chicano]

Err...that plan got derailed big time.

Yeah it did, coming out of the Olympics with gold and with big one punch power, Kennedy McKinney had major hype in his favor. He fell off the tracks.