HBO criticisms..

[sunny31]

Jim Watt's where it's at!!

Jim watt is an excellent commentator he has good feel, generally reads how the fight is going, and is also exciting

[ßringer]

Cheers for the comments pal, and nice post. I've read your threads and posts on this area numerous times and agree whole heartedly not to mention respect the comments as a real passionate fan of the sport, whom cares what's happening to it over time. The characters on the broadcasts, the commentating, general presenting, info, quips are all part and part of selling the good sport of boxing. I just do not feel Kellermen in particular is doing it the unbiased professionalism it deserves.

To be honest most others are tolerable, I don't mind any of them really anywhere near as much. I've highlighted some silly comments of Lampley and Stewards but they aren't anywhere near as bad as Kellermen, and don't have such sly biased agenda's. So I can take some entertainmenty stuff and I accept the varying styles of different networks to an extent, but blatant dis information, un professionalism, contradictions and biased rants on a professional broadcast is just too much to tolerate, we deserve better. The moment you give it a bye is the moment it does get worse because you don't care, hence its been and is getting worse.

I think your right, Kellermen has been a big part in condoning a style, and building a tolerance to mis information and blatant biased and snide remarks, often irrelevent quips, rather than the previous moe solid info. This means others get away with it more, unfortunately. The thing is, HBO are putting on more PPV's but aren't necessarily bringing in more fans of the sport and even losing some buyers imo, at a time when more should be brought on board to a very decent all round professional sport.

The result is a much less unbiased, professional, on point informative impartial broadcast, and imo, less knowledgeable fans, and generally less fans of the sport. It's a whole package and this is letting it down, I know a few people whom avoid certain commentators even networks now, and that's a terrible state of affairs in the professional media. We should be able to rely on broadcasting a lot more and a few are letting the game down. Some networks are going to have to realise a lot of viewers demand high quality commentating and broadcasts and won't be ripped off, especially in the present times.

Great response, I agree on pretty much everything you touched on.

I've noticed a steep decline in HBO commentary ever since Kellerman came aboard though.

I don't think the decline in commentary on HBO is resulting in less knowledgeable fans, though. I think HBO's crew is basically geared towards the "casual" crowd. That's why they make jokes, and crack up on each other, and that type of thing.

Diehards like those of us who post daily here on boxingscene know what's what though. And Kellerman isn't fooling any of us.

While I do wish for a higher quality product in the commentary department, I realize that HBO's entire boxing lineup is geared towards the casual fans, not us. That's why they do things like 24/7, where they focus more on the fighters personal lives than their actual training.

I just don't understand how some of them can be so unaware of certain things. Like when Kellerman said that Calzaghe was dropped in the Eubank fight in the first round, not once, but twice. And nobody corrected him.

Or when Lampley said Corrales/Castillo took place in 2003, and nobody corrected him.

It seems as if the production assistant has fallen asleep at the wheel. Or maybe there never was one in the first place?

[Porter's Dad]

Calzaghe vs Jones was one of the most miserable match-ups in recent memory.

What the **** did you want them to say?

You know, sometimes I feel bad about disliking you because I don't like to be the kind of guy who is mean-spirited and picks on others...

but then I read your posts.

Bring back _Ricky_

[GP27]

I like max, i enjoy his voice...jim is the best though...Larry used to be awesome but he is slowed down to a crawl...takes him 5 mins to complete a sentence.

[ßringer]

I like max, i enjoy his voice...jim is the best though...Larry used to be awesome but he is slowed down to a crawl...takes him 5 mins to complete a sentence.

I'd rather wait that 5 minutes to listen to Larry complete his sentence, than listen to Max read me a novel in that 5 minutes.

At least with Larry you always end up getting classic one liners and quotes.

[Rubber Duck]

I'm becoming increasing un-impressed with HBO as a whole, and now actually just really starting to go beyond questioning but just thinking the quality is lower then it should be at times. HBO seem to be increasingly picky about fights they'll accept and televise thus some fights come off some don't, it's too much influence from a network, on the sport itself.

Take Calzaghe Jones, they wouldn't even do a PPV in another country, Wales Millennium stadium woulda been 70+ thousand people, a big event and done as well if not better. There's tonnes of worser examples many I've heard of, like Taylor, they'd only go along with one or two guys like Lacy over a couple of others more legitimate. Pavlik Hopkins is another they wanted, and they ruined their young star in the process, good work. They just seem to have to much clout on the sport and it's not always good.

On the Calzaghe Jones fight they don't seem to be unbiased as a network should be much more, at all. Some notes and examples just from this weekends fight.


Front page of HBO Boxing;

No legs. No reflexes. No chance.

That was the sad state old Roy Jones, Jr. found himself in last night at Madison Square Garden. The things that had for so many years made him unbeatable had deserted him, as they do all men with time, and all that was left was a technically flawed stationary target for Joe Calzaghe to stab and punch at for 12 rounds.

Is that really a fair un biased fair piece on the front page of a tv networks front page for Boxing? Any network certainly in the UK would not write something like this, but merely the facts, what happened with at most a smal piece of opinion. But HBO seems rife with bias and too many opinions and motives.

Notes from the fight itself;

As Roy Jones is walking in, it lists his last KO win as Clinton Woods, 2002. Why of all things note this above and beyond everything else? This is talked of again in the very first round, why so much? Seems odd, there's a million and one more logical relevant things to talk about minutes before a big bout is about to commence, ok a negative stat is ok, but that one just seemed lame, and received unworthy emphasis.


Pre right commentating

Normally after some 10 minutes of national anthems and announcements the commentators come back on and talk positively of a big fight about to commence, to hype it a bit at least and stuff. Max Kellerman came on just before the opening round the first thing he talks of is Roy being past prime. The odds are against him. Firstly the odds weren't that much against, some what 5/2 approximately, nowhere near as much as many other fights where such a thing is not said. Can't you think of more things to say on this big fight about to start then this over and over? One positive thing or insight on it maybe, just one or two?


R2
A close one, some scored for Joe some for Roy.

Max Kellermen: "at this point of the fight Jones is making Calzaghe look like a washed up Trinidad."

What the f uck is that? How ridiculous and clearly miles from the truth, why say something like this? He's wildly exaggerating how well Roy was doing, and inventing the idea were seeing Calzaghe look washed up, which he wasn't.

Emmanuel Steward then comes on saying Jones attitude is right, both guys still have very good speed, Roy has more pop in his punches.

R5
Emmanuel Steward: "Joe is doing what he wants at this stage of the fight. Roy has not been that successful in landing too many clean punches. Roy's contact percentage has to be very low, he's throwing punches but he cannot hit Calzaghe. Well I would have to give Roy so far this round. Jones is being physically beaten, as well as out punched."

Jim Lampley: Big left hand from the welshman, Jones left eye is starting to swell."

What major contradictions on the same round, same broadcast, from the same commentating box, same people even. Get it together.



R6
As Calzaghe wanders over stalking Jones with his hands down, bouncing his head in front of Jones...

Lampley: Jones must have made a pretty good point the last round as Calzaghe seems to be paying him more respect."

Kellermen: Roy is occasionally landing the lead right hand and it doesn't seem like it's having an effect on Joe, and that may be having an effect on Roy.

Steward: Definitely.

WTF, more major contradictions. Your all agreeing with each other, but contradicting each other, and even yourselves. What a confused mess for the viewer.


R12
As Joe and Roy touch gloves twice, the second also putting their arms on each others shoulders as a sign of respect..

Lampley:
Calzaghe and Jones still have respect for each other.

2 minutes later:

Lampley:
Maybe Calzaghe shouldn't show boat quite so much, maybe he should show Roy a little more respect.

Another contradiction. Right because Jones and tonnes of other fighters don't show boat? It's fine for them? You just said how the respect each other and just showed it then say that?

Lampley: "Judge Terry O'Connor (Judge) of Wales, is from Wales.

No he's not, he's from England. As it clearly showed even at the start of the fight on the very screen.


Post fight

Kellermen interviewing Calzaghe right after the announcement of him winning. No congratulations or positive comments.

Very first question is about Roy knocking him down, and it happening with Hopkins too, only he looked more hurt this time. Then after Joe talking respectfully of his opponent and thanking everyone he just goes right into showing a replay of the knock down.

"Joe here's the knockdown, you can watch it, and comment."

WTF you want from him Max, blood? Oh no that's on Roy, where Joe landed a better cleaner shot which was as big a thing in the fight if not bigger over more rounds, as opposed to a brief knockdown. Didn't wana discuss that in the post fight interview at all no?

Kellermen"It seemed like you were trying to out Roy Jones, Roy Jones. Watching him afar from across the Atlantic through his prime did you have those kind of thoughts that you wanted to fight someone like him."

He's insinuating all kinds of things here. Weird comment.

There really is a guy out there with a mandate to fight the LHW champ. He's undefeated, he's young, given Pavlik's loss to Hopkins the one guy left is Chad Dawson. Do you have anything to say about Chad Dawson.

Stop racking on about how there's always another guy, then contradict yourself saying there's only one and exaggerating his case for a fight. Way out of context.

Kellermen: Roy we've never ever seen you cut. When you were at your best no one ever won, no one ever came close to winning. And now whether it's because punches are landing, or cos the skin is not as elastic."

WTF, desperate excuses, how about talk about the hard shots Roy and Joe landed, or something else, anything?

"Considering were talking to almost a 40 year old."

You don't tend to say that of other guys also not far from 40, like errr oh Calzaghe. Let alone post 40 like Hopkins whose older, weird that.

Then finishing off the broadcast in furthermore negative light saying how Dawson is the legitimate contender, and Calzaghes position is different to Lennox Lewis's as Lennox can say he beat everyone his era.

Lampley: "If he chooses to bypass Dawson, few if any critics are going to go at him for a decision like that."

I.e, move on Max, let's try to be a little more positive and congratulating about this fight that just happened and broadcast, less about you and your bloody moaning and ulterior motives and bias.

Really shoddy sorry. Just expect better from a big network.

Thoughts?

I know fight clubs that wouldnt have taken a Cazaghe Jones fight. One is washed and the other is a wussy... If you dont like that HBO gives us the best fight over anyone then watch another network. Im sure of the millions who watch HBO they wont miss you...I try to give respect to everyone but this was just plain ******!!!

[Kris Silver]

Great response, I agree on pretty much everything you touched on.

I've noticed a steep decline in HBO commentary ever since Kellerman came aboard though.

I don't think the decline in commentary on HBO is resulting in less knowledgeable fans, though. I think HBO's crew is basically geared towards the "casual" crowd. That's why they make jokes, and crack up on each other, and that type of thing.

Diehards like those of us who post daily here on boxingscene know what's what though. And Kellerman isn't fooling any of us.

While I do wish for a higher quality product in the commentary department, I realize that HBO's entire boxing lineup is geared towards the casual fans, not us. That's why they do things like 24/7, where they focus more on the fighters personal lives than their actual training.

I just don't understand how some of them can be so unaware of certain things. Like when Kellerman said that Calzaghe was dropped in the Eubank fight in the first round, not once, but twice. And nobody corrected him.

Or when Lampley said Corrales/Castillo took place in 2003, and nobody corrected him.

It seems as if the production assistant has fallen asleep at the wheel. Or maybe there never was one in the first place?

Yup, totally. I do think a broadcast lacking in professional, un biased, impartial very factual commentating leads to less knowledgeable fans though. In fact you made a link your post right here. Kellermen said numerous times Calzaghe was dropped by Eubank in there fight when it was the other way round. First of all I can't think of many broadcasts certainly here, on any sport, that have or do make such a basic factual errors and gone un corrected several times. If I'm watching Rugby which I'm a casual fan of, and the commentator tells me a guy has just moved clubs, I see no reason not to believe him, he's the pro not me. If he's wrong, I go away with the wrong info, just as those did on this factual error you outlined on Calzaghe.

The result is it being drilled come, casual fans repeatedly hearing it, and believing it. I guarantee you loads of fans believe it, even some more keen fans whom can't be expected to know details of every year or fighter, and need to rely on professional broadcasts.

That's just touching on one factual error. As for the numerous and more common remarks showing some bias, emphasising what some fighters are doing in fight, did in past ones, the situation in a current division, making out Paul Williams as much as I like him is freezing several divisions in fear, it all adds up so that viewers are guided a certain way, where most of us very keen fans know better, I'm afraid. There's a lot of gullible folk in this world I'm afraid, some keen fans aswell but it goes without saying that by following something passionately your bound to spot errors a broadcast is making so for it not to influence you the way it would and does, others.

[ßringer]

Yup, totally. I do think a broadcast lacking in professional, un biased, impartial very factual commentating leads to less knowledgeable fans though. In fact you made a link your post right here. Kellermen said numerous times Calzaghe was dropped by Eubank in there fight when it was the other way round. First of all I can't think of many broadcasts certainly here, on any sport, have made such a basic factual error and gone un corrected several times. The result is it being drilled come, casual fans repeatedly hearing it, and believing it. I guarantee you loads of fans believe it, even some more keen fans whom can't be expected to know details of every year or fighter, and need to rely on professional broadcasts.

That's just touching on one factual error. As for the numerous and more common remarks showing some bias, emphasising what some fighters are doing in fight, did in past ones, the situation in a current division, making out Paul Williams as much as I like him is freezing several divisions in fear, it all adds up so that viewers are guided a certain way, where most of us very keen fans know better, I'm afraid. There's a lot of gullible folk in this world I'm afraid, some keen fans aswell but it goes without saying that by following something passionately your bound to spot errors a broadcast is making so for it not to influence you the way it would and does, others.

I suppose you're right, I'm sure some out there actually still believe Eubank dropped Joe in the first round of their fight. And as you say, that's just one factual error.

Remember when Bob Papa kept referring to the "phantom knockdown" in the Collazo/Berto fight? And it's impact on the scoring?

And Kellerman's love of Williams sickens me. I'm no fan of Paul's, you can ask anybody. But I don't hate the guy either. But saying he had what was it, 3 different weight divisions "frozen" in fear? C'mon already.

For the most part, I think Kellerman stinks. But occasionally he says something that nobody else will say, that I agree with. A recent example of this would be him being the only commentator at the table who was calling shots landed by Juan Manuel Marquez, in the Diaz fight.

Lampley was in the tank for Diaz, clearly. And Steward was doing what he always does : play musical chairs with who he likes to win the fight.

I'm not sure what's worse : The inconsistency in the commentary overall, the factual errors that go uncorrected, or the blatant truth stretching that all of them are guilty of.

But we're unlikely to change anything, so I guess we can just chalk it all up to HBO being HBO. It's not like we'll stop watching their fights or anything, is it? I guess we'll just have to grit our teeth and like it.

[Kris Silver]

I suppose you're right, I'm sure some out there actually still believe Eubank dropped Joe in the first round of their fight. And as you say, that's just one factual error.

Remember when Bob Papa kept referring to the "phantom knockdown" in the Collazo/Berto fight? And it's impact on the scoring?

And Kellerman's love of Williams sickens me. I'm no fan of Paul's, you can ask anybody. But I don't hate the guy either. But saying he had what was it, 3 different weight divisions "frozen" in fear? C'mon already.

For the most part, I think Kellerman stinks. But occasionally he says something that nobody else will say, that I agree with. A recent example of this would be him being the only commentator at the table who was calling shots landed by Juan Manuel Marquez, in the Diaz fight.

Lampley was in the tank for Diaz, clearly. And Steward was doing what he always does : play musical chairs with who he likes to win the fight.

I'm not sure what's worse : The inconsistency in the commentary overall, the factual errors that go uncorrected, or the blatant truth stretching that all of them are guilty of.

But we're unlikely to change anything, so I guess we can just chalk it all up to HBO being HBO. It's not like we'll stop watching their fights or anything, is it? I guess we'll just have to grit our teeth and like it.

The Berto fight wasn't great either, as for Chris John recently, I laughed when Buncey said if that was journalism school, he wouldn't have made it to the 2nd day. lol.

Your right Kellermen can say some stuff that others won't at times, and it's just luck whether you'll agree or not. I think it's because he's more of an over passionate fan with an agenda, more than he is a professional on the team, imo. I think HBO think that add's a great layer and yes sometimes it does when the others are being plain or agreeable, but over all yes he stinks.

I'm a fan of Williams, but christ how someone could say that on a sports broadcast and go un criticised in the industry, to any major degree, just amazes me. The British are very critical of their media however, and someone saying something ****** will be pulled up for it, and it's more of a meritocracy. Pro's and cons, but you at least expect a fellow broadcaster to correct someone in the wrong, for the sake of the fans getting more factual info and broader viewing experience, those things come above anything else for a lot of people.

I think a lot of people are picky still, and do not watch things when they don't feel theyre getting value in terms of from a very experienced, reliable, impartial professional broadcaster. I'll watch it on download from another network. There's some commentators I and a few people I know, that are being avoided for these very reasons, wanting a better less annoying, decent quality coverage. So I think it is one of the reasons theres less watching boxing, less being brought in at the moment despite bigger fights.

That cooped with the PPV increases I think it's just becoming less user friendly ironically, because with boxing you can't rely on the broadcasters, and it takes serious time and effort to know whats really going on, let alone watching and by half truths through your screen. Fuck that, says some average Joe viewer. I'll watch some MMA, baseball, and a film thanks, I've still spent less too.

[Rubber Duck]

This little nutthuggin punk just did the *****boy thing and gave me some red...I being a real dude dont ever give anyone red...I give people green even if i disagree. We all cant be true...It didnt help your cause my man you are still and always will be a ****in idiot. lol lol lol