I think now's the right time to make this thread as..

[TheGreatA]

Haye was knocked down by Lolenga Mock who is a super middleweight.

I believe Moorer was knocked down and hurt at LHW.

Herbie Hide's chin has been as bad as ever since moving down to CW, he was knocked down a couple of times in one of his recent fights.

The only serious knockdown Toney has suffered in his career was at MW against Reggie Johnson.

[hishaam15]

...I sit here on this freezing toilet in this freezing bathroom, where my only hope of increasing my warmth level is through a typing frenzy on my keyboard.

Here goes...

OK, it's axiomatic that the higher up the weight classes you go, the greater the power the fighters possess. So does this mean that the higher up the weight classes you go, the better chin people have? I mean, if they're having to deal with greater power, then surely they must have a better chin?

I mean, you hear people saying Pac can't take true JMW power (De La Hoya), and Paul Williams couldn't take true Middleweight power (Pavlik).

So is there a correlation between chin and size?

I mean, lets take David Haye as an example....a supposedly chinny Cruiserweight/HW. But what if Haye was, let's, say, a middleweight. Would his chin be world class? I mean, he can take a CW punch better than, say, a Pavlik, who has a pretty good chin for Middleweight.

When people say that Haye is chinny, is it simply for his weight class(es)? Or would he still be chinny at MW? I mean, surely not.

Btw, I know weight draining would become a factor (and I'm just using Haye as an example, Wlad Owns)

But yeah, what I'm trying to say is....is there a correlation between size and chin quality?

Is it unfair to call people like Haye and Hide chinny, when they could probably take a punch better than people like Erik Morales and McClullough (iron chinned fighters).

I know this possibly might be the most ******ed thread of all time, but it just got me thinking...

Am I making sense here?

i suppose neck muscle etc has a slight effect on the ability to take a punch, but if u have a **** chin, it stays ****.

[BrooklynBomber]

Exactly, that's the scenario I've been running through my head. Margs has an amazing chin- but he did get rocked by Santos, so I doubt he could take HW power.

But then, isn't it kinda odd how Margs is revered for his chin, and Wlad is slaughtered for his? I mean, the disparity in power they're taking is so huge....

As for Brooklyn Bomber- interesting points, man. But I can't see how being more cautious equates to the fighters from the higher weight classes having more skill.

Maybe it's hard to see that because of the dearth of world class talent in the HW, for instance.

I dunno. Interesting stuff.

It's all like in the game theory, but **** it, I am not gonna show myself an even bigger nerd.
Basically what you have at heavyweight is that you cant make mistakes(for obvious reasons), so you have to come up with more ingenious ways of beating your opponent, and the main thing is that your opponent cant be able to realize what you are doing either. So, heavies pick more subtle ways of beating their opponents, wether the way they use specific range and angle, the specific way they clinch(for example for Wlad clinching is not so much a defense, but the way he probes and sucks his opponents physical strength and energy) Heavies also use their punches for wider set of goals then smaller guys. For example you would rarely see a small guy use his jab for anything more then keeping/closing distance and setting up another punch. Heavyweights on the other hand use it(besides the listed) to disrupt the vision(not in the last because of the bigger gloves), disrupt punches by aiming at the shoulders and last but not the list to break down the shell type defense that is used by the likes of Abraham or Wright. It is not a coincidence that it was Wlad who came up with a simple yet effective way of breaking down Thompson's defense by sticking his left hand in Tony's glove(which in turn limits the movement of the guard and creates openings), then landing to the gap between the arms or other presented opportunities.
Heavyweights also, in general, are much more patient fighters(although you may call it a "slower pace") they can be setting up one finishing opportunity for many rounds, knowing that "one punch turns around the fight" is an especially potent concept in their given weight division.
I can be talking on about this for hours, really, and still wont be able to "cover all bases" simply because I see it from my perspective of an ex-amateur fighter/ avid boxing fan and obviously missing a lot compared to a pro fighter.
And besides, it's late and I got some reading to do.

[Porter's Dad]

Haye was knocked down by Lolenga Mock who is a super middleweight.

I believe Moorer was knocked down and hurt at LHW.

Herbie Hide's chin has been as bad as ever since moving down to CW, he was knocked down a couple of times in one of his recent fights.

The only serious knockdown Toney has suffered in his career was at MW against Reggie Johnson.

Yeah but the thing with those examples is that we're just talking about the weight class they more or less started in.

I was kinda thinking more about a scenario of, say, Wlad fighting at MW, or WW, hypothetically of course. Surely those punches wouldn't affect him?

What makes Margarito granite chinned and Wlad china chinned? It is strictly the weight class they're in?

[Porter's Dad]

i suppose neck muscle etc has a slight effect on the ability to take a punch, but if u have a **** chin, it stays ****.

I guess maybe sparring and fighting at higher weight classes from the start of your career gets you adjusted to the power a little?

[Porter's Dad]

Good post, BB.

I don't necessarily agree but it's a interesting perspective on this.

[-Antonio-]

Well, the logic would not deny that.
Lighter weight divisions, in reality, are much less skilled form of boxing(for many reasons, but mainly because they can get away with things bigger guys cant) and the bigger fighters ARE supposed to get more credit. It is really a thing of last 10 or so years where lighter divisions were glamorized as "more skilled" mainly because the majority of boxing fans know **** all about the actual boxing.

Wouldn't the difference in speed be a factor for the smaller guys that the bigger fighters don't have to deal with?

The mind works the same way regardless of size. The bigger guys are punching at slower speeds. Having to react to the quicker movements makes up for the difference in power, no? Sure the chance of getting knocked out may not be nearly as high, but does that mean it's more skill, or ust different skill?

[hishaam15]

I guess maybe sparring and fighting at higher weight classes from the start of your career gets you adjusted to the power a little?

possibly, but fighters with good chins naturally have good chins. not to say Marg would be able to take a HW punch, but the heavier guys are generally taller and have bigger frame and more mass, so that could contribute to why they take a better punch

[BrooklynBomber]

Wouldn't the difference in speed be a factor for the smaller guys that the bigger fighters don't have to deal with?

The mind works the same way regardless of size. The bigger guys are punching at slower speeds. Having to react to the quicker movements makes up for the difference in power, no? Sure the chance of getting knocked out may not be nearly as high, but does that mean it's more skill, or ust different skill?

Antonio, valid point, but in reality the speed is not that much different however, remember the SAT -- Speed, Accuracy, Timing. As you obviously know they are the most important components of the KO punch, and while Heavies may have somwhat less of a speed of delivery or combination the accuracy and timing are the same or even better(given that they pick better angles, often due to the height difference), which when it is coupled with a much bigger mass(up to twice sometimes the mass of little guys sometimes) makes it a much more dangerous situation for heavies because the blocking as it is dont usually hold up as well as for little guys. So, much more is invested in finding right footwork
Also, dont forget that for naturally bigger guys(given that neural synapses travel at the same speed for every human being out there, well at least for our example) it takes more time to move their body then for little guys. So, it works both ways, while making it a much more dangerous environment for a heavy.
Anyway, I might miss a point or two, cause I am concretely drunk, but I will respond tomorrow, when I sober up.
And before any one of you ask me why am I posting drunk, I will answer that it is the only way some of you are tolerable.

[-Antonio-]

Antonio, valid point, but in reality the speed is not that much different however, remember the SAT -- Speed, Accuracy, Timing. As you obviously know they are the most important components of the KO punch, and while Heavies may have somwhat less of a speed of delivery or combination the accuracy and timing are the same or even better(given that they pick better angles, often due to the height difference), which when it is coupled with a much bigger mass(up to twice sometimes the mass of little guys sometimes) makes it a much more dangerous situation for heavies because the blocking as it is dont usually hold up as well as for little guys. So, much more is invested in finding right footwork
Also, dont forget that for naturally bigger guys(given that neural synapses travel at the same speed for every human being out there, well at least for our example) it takes more time to move their body then for little guys. So, it works both ways, while making it a much more dangerous environment for a heavy.
Anyway, I might miss a point or two, cause I am concretely drunk, but I will respond tomorrow, when I sober up.
And before any one of you ask me why am I posting drunk, I will answer that it is the only way some of you are tolerable.

Interesting points, Brook. I agree there's much less room for error.